Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-07-2008, 06:27 PM   #11 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cookeville, TN
Posts: 850
Thanks: 1
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVOboy View Post
Well, the troublesome think about intakes is that every car reacts differently to different temperatures. Some will pull timing with hot air, others won't.

I'm glad you did this test, but I hope others don't take this to mean that "hot air doesn't work" or that "hot air is debunked"
It's probably entirely based on how the car's ECU is mapped. If it is geared more towards HP output its just going to dump more fuel to try and recover that lost HP(lost air). If it's geared for economy or somewhere in the middle it would see gains. . .

which would make sense with the subaru not showing gains. Their systems are typically mapped for HP over FE.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 12-07-2008, 08:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 18603, USA
Posts: 759

The Crimson Crawler - '04 Hyundai Elantra GLS
90 day: 36.71 mpg (US)
Thanks: 221
Thanked 60 Times in 45 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post
It's probably entirely based on how the car's ECU is mapped. If it is geared more towards HP output its just going to dump more fuel to try and recover that lost HP(lost air). If it's geared for economy or somewhere in the middle it would see gains. . .
So what would that mean for something like my beat-up piece of Detroit-us (detritus)? '93 Lumina Euro 3.1L MFI (not the 3100).
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 12:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cookeville, TN
Posts: 850
Thanks: 1
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevyn View Post
So what would that mean for something like my beat-up piece of Detroit-us (detritus)? '93 Lumina Euro 3.1L MFI (not the 3100).
When you are driving do you feel the need to go faster? Does it look like it should go fast? Can it get to 60 quickly or very quickly?

lol. I do not know. Those questions won't really even answer the question. An outback doesn't really look like it should go fast but its designers are keen on mudding and four-wheeling so it needs hp.

The real question is what was your car designed as? A sports car or an econo car. Did it get good mpg to start with or lower end?

If sportscar just slap either no changes or a CAI. If it got really good for its weight class and trim might wanna look into it, although test the inake air temperature first and see if its really high to start with or low. low WAI, high, leave it alone, really high CAI.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 12:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 18603, USA
Posts: 759

The Crimson Crawler - '04 Hyundai Elantra GLS
90 day: 36.71 mpg (US)
Thanks: 221
Thanked 60 Times in 45 Posts
It's not the "super-performance" package (which was the Z34), but it's the "Euro" package, also known as Eurosport. It's most likely set more toward the performance end than the efficiency end. I'll probably just leave well enough alone for now.

Thanks for the thoughts!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2008, 01:18 AM   #15 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: maine
Posts: 758

oldscoob - '87 subaru wagon gl/dr
90 day: 47.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 21
Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts
the hot air maf worked wonders on a singular point injection subaru of the 80s. the giant intakes and increased stroke today with individual gadgets individualizing...hot air, cold air, who cares...it won't do much without changing to lean conditions by changing parts.
speaking of outback...
I heard an ej series engine run with higher compression and singular type plug fire, with a performance exhaust, non-turbo. It would be the only ej sube I would ever attempt, it was nice to see. The owner did admit the heads do not like to stay sealed. that is the shame of making it a "real" engine...I could only guess the consumption for power returned bringing a laugh while it lasted. Good ol days aint good ol stupid for some of us under the hood...
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2008, 12:06 PM   #16 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NorCal
Posts: 451
Thanks: 1
Thanked 40 Times in 26 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVOboy View Post
I'm glad you did this test, but I hope others don't take this to mean that "hot air doesn't work" or that "hot air is debunked"
Indeed... concluding the wrong thing from a test can be worse than no test at all.

This is a great post though, and puts a fine point on the fact that there is more to it than meets the eye, you need to test your car.

This makes me wonder if there is an optimal intake temp or temp range (to achieve max FE) for every fuel injection system and engine. If so, having access to very hot air, and very cold air in winter allows for mixing to maintain the 'sweet spot' if you use a flapper door controlled by some simple circuit and upstream temp sensor. As someone in another thread pointed out, most 70's and 80's cars came OEM with vacuum operated flapper doors <my daughter's '89 Honda Civic Si for instance>
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2008, 01:02 PM   #17 (permalink)
A madman
 
brucey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: WV
Posts: 1,018

Pequod - '17 Subaru Outback
90 day: 22.79 mpg (US)
Thanks: 73
Thanked 183 Times in 98 Posts
Send a message via AIM to brucey
I'm sure every car is different, thats what the scan gauge is for!

29 mpg driving regularly on trips to pittsburgh now, although I recently overhaulled the suspenion and my car got out of allignment and I got 13.8 under verys imilar conditions
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2008, 09:08 PM   #18 (permalink)
Renaissance Man
 
Formula413's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In the Northeast dreaming of the Southwest
Posts: 596

Aegean C - '17 Honda Civic LX
90 day: 38.89 mpg (US)
Thanks: 20
Thanked 31 Times in 24 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucey View Post
With the cold air coming in, the torque converter locks up quickly. It locks up way more than I'm used to, it can lock up in 4th and still climb a moderate hill at 45 mph without a problem.
Any thoughts on why IAT affects TC lockup?
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2008, 09:12 PM   #19 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Plymouth Meeting PA
Posts: 23

93Lx - '93 Ford Thunderbird Lx
90 day: 20.64 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
just a WAG but computer may monitor torque production, other idea is that the larger throttle opening required for the same speed with less power means the TPS sensor reads a higher range than is permitted for lockup. Performance calibration and all...
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2008, 12:44 AM   #20 (permalink)
Depends on the Day
 
RH77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kansas City Area
Posts: 1,761

Teggy - '98 Acura Integra LS
Sports Cars
90 day: 32.74 mpg (US)

IMA - '10 Honda Insight EX
Team Honda
90 day: 34.76 mpg (US)

Tessie - '06 Acura TSX Base
90 day: 28.2 mpg (US)
Thanks: 31
Thanked 41 Times in 35 Posts
First, I would like to echo the sentiment that each engine model is different and reacts to intake air differently. Less than 90F and it's tough to attain optimal FE (with all other parameters equal). It has been tested and documented.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Formula413 View Post
Any thoughts on why IAT affects TC lockup?
Have you noticed an increase in throttle input with the warmer air? TC lockup is often based on an increased throttle position (either electronically and/or through the kickdown cable).

Aside from that, my TC has me baffled. The TCM uses fuzzy logic to calculate speed, TPS, and change in speed to determine gear holding if ascending or descending a hill, and TC lockup (slight, partial, and full). Starting from cold (without EBH) in the winter, let's say the IAT goes from 25F to 100F during the drive. Coolant temps are well within full-temp range (195-200F, open thermostat), and it still won't lock up! Sometimes it requires a firm throttle press, then it engages. Other times, it just decides to kick in 20 minutes later. Only on cold startup. EBH starts, it engages no problem.

-Rick

__________________
“If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research” ― Albert Einstein

_
_
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Comparing Warm Air Intakes (WAI) & Cold Air Intakes (CAI) toomuch EcoModding Central 27 11-20-2022 04:24 PM
Honda IACV explained TomO Off-Topic Tech 16 12-21-2015 01:49 AM
Conversion idea, 2L inline 4 -> piston boosted 1.0L 2 banger? Warning....Long thread JoJotheTireMan EcoModding Central 56 06-12-2011 03:09 AM
carbed car .. think a warm air intake will help? ebacherville EcoModding Central 21 06-29-2008 09:16 AM
Warm Air Intake whokilledthejams EcoModding Central 2 06-18-2008 06:28 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com