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[Snax]

Ever wake up suddenly with a great idea?

Perhaps this is obvious to most, but while I have been wanting to expand my PV array, add storage, and all of that, I have also been wanting to build a shed this spring. But what if that shed is built to a standard to fully support all of that?

With 200 square feet of space as my upper limit, a lean-to style roof provides well over 200 square feet of panel space. *200+ square feet of panel space that must be a part of the support structure for the array.*

That seems to me like I just saved 30% of the cost of building my shed via the tax man!

https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/41...r-installation

Okay, perhaps writing off the entire thing might be a stretch, but certainly any costs to creating the basic structure would be covered. Housing a battery storage system would probably grant even further leeway on that point. It would have to be protected from the elements and theft, right??

Foundation, floor system, wall and roof framing, exterior siding, and roof covering, all potentially able to be included as write-offs!

Am I missing something or did I just wake up to what many people have been doing all along?

[redpoint5]

I haven't looked at the relevant tax code, but just about anything can be considered a "loss" since there's so many tax laws designed to benefit various special interests over the years.

A friend of mine opened an account for each of his children. He then pays the kids for doing chores, and writes those payments off on his taxes. He's the legal custodian of those accounts, so he can use the money however he wants. Put money in tax free > take money out and spend on whatever you want.

This is why I keep saying there needs to be a federal sales tax.

[Shortie771]

Just wanted to jump in and say that I installed a 4.5kW solar array on my house in June and have since been, for the most part NetZero. I did all of the math for my geographic location and solar azimuth to figure out how to get the most sun and how many panels I'd need. Then I pieced it all together from a solar wholesaler and did the installation myself. BTW, June is probably not be best time to be installing solar panels on a galvalume roof... Sunburn from above and then again as it reflects back at you.

I'm grid-tied with no batteries, because they are too expensive to keep up with and blackouts are incredibly rare here and if they happen, the power is back on in less than 10 seconds. My co-op does 1:1 net metering which works like rollover minutes... Any extra that I make just gets carried over to the next bill. There is however a $23 service fee that is charged every month, but because if the way I sized my system, I've been producing enough that I don't have to pay that either. My idea was to generate a surplus in the summer so that it carries me through the winter, when we have less sun and have to run the (electric) heater. Just last month I dipped into my surplus, by $6, but to be fair I didn't get them installed in time to take full advantage of that spring/summer sun.


As far as the EV part goes, I don't own one but I'm contemplating converting my Del Sol Si into a full EV. I may have to add some extra panels to support the extra charging usage though.

And to those who think solar isn't worth it... In my own experience, the answer is "it depends". It's a case by case thing. Even if it doesn't make sense monetarily, it may make sense for other reasons. For me it made sense all around. In total, my system cost me $6,521.82. After the 30% tax rebate that brings it down to $4,565.27. My price per kWh varies, but on average it's around $0.10/kWh. Over the last 6 months I've produced a little over 4MWh, which adds up to about a savings of right around $400. That means if the trend continues, my panels will pay for themselves in a little over 5.5 years. They don't increase my property tax or insurance and electric rates don't effect me, actually the higher they go, the better my ROI. I DID consider investing the money into index funds instead, but once you factor in taxes, volatility and inflation, this just seemed like the better option.

[Snax]

Outstanding Shortie.

I really do wish I could get by on just my 5kW array, but it only covers about half my bill in the peak of summer. My heat is all heat pump electric though, so that is a huge factor in the cost structure in the winter that even doubling the size of my array likely won't help much with.

Regardless, the tax game is such a tricky one. Even the IRS will blatantly ignore their own rules at times if the law allows it. One just has to be prepared to pay the piper when they roll that way!

[Shortie771]

Originally Posted by Snax

Outstanding Shortie.

I really do wish I could get by on just my 5kW array, but it only covers about half my bill in the peak of summer. My heat is all heat pump electric though, so that is a huge factor in the cost structure in the winter that even doubling the size of my array likely won't help much with.

Regardless, the tax game is such a tricky one. Even the IRS will blatantly ignore their own rules at times if the law allows it. One just has to be prepared to pay the piper when they roll that way!

It helps when you design the house around energy efficiency from the start and also especially helps that it's only 600sqft.

I wonder about the tax incentives for the solar structure... If I convert the Del Sol to EV that could offset the cost of my carport. I'm planning on a she'd style roof (to match the house) which would have Western exposure. I'm pretty much out of room on the house itself.

[Angel And The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Snax

Outstanding Shortie.

I really do wish I could get by on just my 5kW array, but it only covers about half my bill in the peak of summer. My heat is all heat pump electric though, so that is a huge factor in the cost structure in the winter that even doubling the size of my array likely won't help much with.

Regardless, the tax game is such a tricky one. Even the IRS will blatantly ignore their own rules at times if the law allows it. One just has to be prepared to pay the piper when they roll that way!

Is you array static mounted, or does it follow the sun? That can help enormously. Here is a simple example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL9PcGu_xrA

[Snax]

My current and future expansion are going to have to be static. That whole HOA regulation thing definitely rears it's head on that. BUT, I have to wonder what the cost advantages really are with tracking arrays. The additional costs of engineering and keeping one working properly are more than most people, including me, really want to deal with. Plus, that would be a lot of panels to move around at over 10kW!

My current array is set at less than ideal angles, tilted 22 degrees pure East with no elevation tilt south.

The shed however will be built much closer to 100% ideal for a static array for year round performance however, facing completely south with a 7:12 pitch will put it at 30 degrees inclination. Calculators recommend more for my lattitude, but knowing the weather better, optimizing for winter is a solid waste of time here in the Pacific Northwest. It should produce very well the other 9 months of the year.

[Shortie771]

Ouch that existing setup is definitely being hindered by it's orientation. Suprisingly the tilt only has a small effect on the total output (unless they are flat of course). When I was designing my system I crunched so many numbers trying to decide if I should angle them differently, adjust them seasonally, or even try out a tracking system. Sadly none of it pays off. For a roof mounted system, adjusting them for a better angle or tilting them seasonally requires quite a bit of spacing between the panels which means you can't fit nearly as many on the roof. I have 15 panels on my roof and if I spaced mine far enough apart so they didn't cast shadows on each other and adjusted them for the best angle (either year round or seasonally) I would have only been able to fit 10 panels on my roof. Seasonal adjustments (4 times/year) only increased production by 4.6%, which would net me an effective 2.27kW system once all the math is done vs my current sytem which is effectively 3.2kW. It's nice to squeeze every bit of juice out of the panels, but it only makes sense if you have the extra space, otherwise you're just better off just packing as many panels in as you can fit.

As far as tracking systems go... Those things are awesome, BUT they add a lot of cost (if you can't DIY one) and a lot of complexity and maintenance to the system. If you want a set it and forget it type if array, it's not recommended. They increase solar production by 28.9% which is impressive, but again space is a concern along with the terrible (to some) aesthetic of them, although I think they're a thing if beauty.

If you're interested in crunching numbers for your shop solar array, here's a good LINKhttps://www.solarpaneltilt.com. It already seems like you're on the right track for a pretty optimised setup though.

[Angel And The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Snax

That whole HOA regulation thing

OW, Snax! I hate HOAs.
Shortie, tracking for each panel IS expensive and land intensive. To make sense, all panels would have to be on one base, and that base should probably be back yard mounted, rather than roof mounted.
Horizontal (daily) tracking is far more consequential than vertical (seasonal) tracking due to the greater degree of solar movement East to West, than South to North, but a dual tracker can increase daily solar harvesting by 40%, allowing you to use 28% fewer panels for the same solar power harvested: https://www.homepower.com/articles/s...k-or-not-track

[Shortie771]

Originally Posted by Angel And The Wolf

OW, Snax! I hate HOAs.
Shortie, tracking for each panel IS expensive and land intensive. To make sense, all panels would have to be on one base, and that base should probably be back yard mounted, rather than roof mounted.
Horizontal (daily) tracking is far more consequential than vertical (seasonal) tracking due to the greater degree of solar movement East to West, than South to North, but a dual tracker can increase daily solar harvesting by 40%, allowing you to use 28% fewer panels for the same solar power harvested: https://www.homepower.com/articles/s...k-or-not-track

I completely agree with you. The ONLY way tracking makes sense would be to put all of the panels on a single tracker. However the cost simply isn't justified for residential applications. Of the 3 links in that article, I could only find pricing on zomeworks' website. If I use my own array for reference because I'm familiar with those numbers, I could probably get away with a UTRF120 which holds 10 panels. Looking at the data I've collected from my system monitoring, each if my panels produce about 1.5kWh/day. So if they produce 40% more with a tracker that would bump them up to 2.1kWh each. Now the system makes 21kWh/day on a average. Definitely not bad, but that tracker costs $6,852... for just the tracker!! That's more than the cost of my entire 15 panel system which averages 22.5kWh/day. Even if I totally botched the numbers, the question comes out to "is +40% production worth over 300% the cost?". IMHO (which may mean nothing) the only way a tracker makes sense is if you've already run out of roof space and don't have the space for a stationary ground mounted array. OR if you can DIY yourself a tracker on the cheap.

Not sure why I said trackers take up more space in my previous post... Still waking up I guess.