Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-11-2009, 05:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,895
Thanks: 23,972
Thanked 7,223 Times in 4,650 Posts
TEMP vs DRAG Estimator (winter / summer)

Hello all.
zjrog was lamenting mpg loss at another forum.At minus 19-degrees his Jeep is getting slammed at the pump.
I put this chart together as a quick reference guide to allow anyone to anticipate how drag might be influenced by changing air temps.
I've attempted to make it self-explanatory.Ambient temps are listed at the bottom.Locate your current temp,go straight up until you intersect the curve,and read your new air density directly to the left.(You can use linear interpolation to arrive at values that fall between values listed)
Divide this value of rho by the SAE standard 0.002377 to get your multiplier and use this with your vehicles published or estimated Drag-Factor( CdA ) to get your "virtual" CdA at the different temp.
I've included an example using my T-100 @ - 20-degrees F.As HWY MPG varies as 50% of a drag change,the 17.795% drag increase would reduce HWY MPG almost 9%.
Factor in thicker viscosities of all the lubes,and increased rolling resistance of colder tires,and it's a triple-whammy.
For summer operation,you will notice that on a 100-degree day,you can pick up 3.5% mpg without doing a thing.
I apologize for the US Standard units,and necessary conversions for SI units.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Untitled-1.jpg
Views:	194
Size:	89.8 KB
ID:	5009  
  Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
Fubeca (12-11-2009), mcguire (03-12-2010), MetroMPG (12-14-2009), mjboks (12-15-2009), NeilBlanchard (12-12-2009), tasdrouille (12-11-2009), Tharag (09-29-2010), Weather Spotter (12-11-2009)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 12-11-2009, 06:14 PM   #2 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
FastPlastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ames, IA
Posts: 419

98 Cherokee - '98 Jeep Cherokee
90 day: 17.18 mpg (US)

ZX7R Ninja - '99 Kawasaki ZX7R Ninja
90 day: 42.45 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Holy cow!! Cd for your truck go's from .44 to .518 at -20F? It's no wonder it seems like something is holding you back when it gets cold.
__________________

Adjusted for my driving habits. 80%city/20%Highway.
20mpg city/30mpg highway or bust! Check out my mods so far
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 06:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,895
Thanks: 23,972
Thanked 7,223 Times in 4,650 Posts
cold

Quote:
Originally Posted by FastPlastic View Post
Holy cow!! Cd for your truck go's from .44 to .518 at -20F? It's no wonder it seems like something is holding you back when it gets cold.
Yeah,living in Texas,I've seen single-digit weather and I've camped in a tent at -30 F,but I don't remember trying to drive in those temps.
I'd originally done the table to +20-F,then zjrog said he was driving at -19,and it blew my mind when I saw the numbers at those kind of temps.What a punch!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 06:24 PM   #4 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,762

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,585
Thanked 3,555 Times in 2,218 Posts
Not only that, the tires get square and the bearings get mired in molasses. And if you like breathing, you then can't see out the windows. God's Country!
__________________


  Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 09:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 865
Thanks: 29
Thanked 111 Times in 83 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
Not only that, the tires get square and the bearings get mired in molasses. And if you like breathing, you then can't see out the windows. God's Country!
And this is assuming there is no wind blowing against you.

Leave the car home - hitch up the dog sled. Mush!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 09:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 87

The Truck - '06 Chevrolet Silverado Ext Cab 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4
Thanked 33 Times in 15 Posts
Thanks for posting this - this is really interesting. I'd never thought of the significance of the increased density of the air. I've always blamed it on winter fuel, heat loss and viscosity changes.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 10:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
Wiki Mod
 
Weather Spotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Midland MI, USA
Posts: 2,042

Max - '14 Ford C-Max SEL
Thanks: 228
Thanked 304 Times in 210 Posts
I had heard that the density changed, just had never seen any hard numbers. those look about right from what I have seen.

Thanks!
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 10:10 PM   #8 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 865
Thanks: 29
Thanked 111 Times in 83 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fubeca View Post
Thanks for posting this - this is really interesting. I'd never thought of the significance of the increased density of the air. I've always blamed it on winter fuel, heat loss and viscosity changes.
I've always blamed it on cold start operation. Any vehicle will consume more fuel before it reaches operating temperature.

But all of the above factors apply. Winter's a b**ch. It's hard on cars and it's hard on people.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 10:40 PM   #9 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
3-Wheeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southern WI
Posts: 827

AlienMobile - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 80.05 mpg (US)
Thanks: 101
Thanked 560 Times in 191 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
...the 17.795% drag increase would reduce HWY MPG almost 9%...
Hi Aerohead,

Apparently the ISO paper must have some other variables besides the absolute temperature that affects your calculated 18% increase in drag.

If the air drag increase was strictly based on temperature (air density), then the variation between 70°F and -20°F would be:

= (460°R + 70°F) / (460°R + (-20°F))
= (530) / (440)
= 20.5%

Jim.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2009, 02:44 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,895
Thanks: 23,972
Thanked 7,223 Times in 4,650 Posts
variation

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3-Wheeler View Post
Hi Aerohead,

Apparently the ISO paper must have some other variables besides the absolute temperature that affects your calculated 18% increase in drag.

If the air drag increase was strictly based on temperature (air density), then the variation between 70°F and -20°F would be:

= (460°R + 70°F) / (460°R + (-20°F))
= (530) / (440)
= 20.5%

Jim.
Jim,many of the densities were tabulated in my fluids text.For the others I found the specific weight at given temps( at standard pressure) and divided by the gravitational constant to get rho.Everything is calculated at Standard barometric pressure.
Some of the tabular data I ignored,as it dealt with elevations we'd never encounter in a vehicle.- 12.3 degrees is not encountered until 20,000 feet. - 20 degrees is up where commercial aircraft are operating.
The data I have must reflect temps/densities impacted by meteorological effects.
I'm hamstrung here at the copy center asI don't have all my notes with me.If I'm off base I apologize and will dig back in when I get home and rectify.
I'm also going to post a table on temp/elevation and baro. pressure/elevation.If you can shoot some holes in those let me know,as things are tough enough as it is let alone going down some dead-end path.
I appreciate the heads-up.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CdA list Daox Aerodynamics 206 10-25-2023 06:32 PM
Mythbusters tests "golf ball" dimples NeilBlanchard Aerodynamics 120 10-06-2022 06:08 PM
Aerodynamic lift- A real problem Hermie Aerodynamics 175 12-05-2010 07:56 PM
Sources of Aerodynamic Drag in Automobiles and Possible Solutions SVOboy Aerodynamics 12 02-17-2010 02:09 PM
aero-mods,installment#9(internal drag) aerohead Aerodynamics 39 07-11-2008 05:45 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com