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Old 09-05-2013, 08:15 PM   #31 (permalink)
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What do you see as "too good to be true" here? Too good to be true would be selling the Tesla S for $15K. Or Tesla asking for your down payment when they have nothing but a pretty 3D graphic. Fisker, on the other hand, was "too good to be true" and that was pretty obvious.

So... what are you seeing WRT Tesla that we aren't?

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Old 09-05-2013, 08:36 PM   #32 (permalink)
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There should really be a disclaimer attached every time someone says the Tesla S is the safest car ever made. Yes, indeed, it achieved the highest rating ever (*gets really quiet and speaks rather quickly*) of any car tested. To be completely fair, and to bring everything into perspective, high end cars are not crash tested like the normal cars. You won't find crash test data for most Ferrari's, or many of the Tesla S competitors like Audi, BMW, Mercedes, etc. There are many reasons, one being they are really expensive to destroy and test. I won't go into that debate, but I just wanted to be fair.

Another point is how the company and sales will be effected when the state and federal government stop subsidizing the purchases. With all the taxpayer money pouring into their accounts it's pretty easy to be optimistic, but when the price goes up $7500 will that effect sales? Also you have half of the companies sales taking place in one state. The majority taking place on one side of the country. I'm not saying Telsa is bound to fail, or we shouldn't be optimistic, but all the media saying that Tesla will topple GM and Ford is just really hyped up commentary. We haven't seen enough to judge their long term profitability, or to call Telsa the Apple of the car world.

BTW that is a pretty crappy comparison because Apple is losing smartphone market share like there is no tomorrow. I wouldn't want Tesla to climb to the top and then jump off a cliff.
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:59 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Until *I* personally see actual:

a) battery 'production' costs
b) battery 'replacement' costs
c) demonstrated battery charge/use 'life-cycle' curves
d) promulgated emergency battery-disconnect procedures

...everything about TESLA's "halo" shouts "...too good, to be true..." to me.

So, while YMMV, I shall remain seated, at idle, with my doubts, until I see convincing DATA answering *my* concerns.
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Old 09-06-2013, 02:13 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbaber View Post
There should really be a disclaimer attached every time someone says the Tesla S is the safest car ever made. Yes, indeed, it achieved the highest rating ever (*gets really quiet and speaks rather quickly*) of any car tested. To be completely fair, and to bring everything into perspective, high end cars are not crash tested like the normal cars. You won't find crash test data for most Ferrari's, or many of the Tesla S competitors like Audi, BMW, Mercedes, etc. There are many reasons, one being they are really expensive to destroy and test. I won't go into that debate, but I just wanted to be fair.
True, but they do kinda raise the bar then, don't they? I mean, if a dinky little company that is planning to build 22,000 units this year can crash test a car that they sell for about $70,000, why couldn't a company like Volkswagen Group crash test the Audi A8 which also sells for about $70,000? Granted, they have more models to test, but they sold over 9 million vehicles in 2012, of which nearly 36,000 were A8s. (From Audi A8 Production Numbers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbaber View Post
Another point is how the company and sales will be effected when the state and federal government stop subsidizing the purchases. With all the taxpayer money pouring into their accounts it's pretty easy to be optimistic, but when the price goes up $7500 will that effect sales? Also you have half of the companies sales taking place in one state. The majority taking place on one side of the country. I'm not saying Telsa is bound to fail, or we shouldn't be optimistic, but all the media saying that Tesla will topple GM and Ford is just really hyped up commentary. We haven't seen enough to judge their long term profitability, or to call Telsa the Apple of the car world.
Ya, that will be interesting to see. My own impression is that even if the EV subsidy goes away, the Tesla S will be attractive since it competes well with luxury cars in the same (non-subsidized) price range (with the exception of the ability to drive across the country, of course). The real challenge will be when the big auto makers release luxury hybrids or EVs which target the same affluent "green" consumers (ya, that's probably an oxymoron -> "green consumers"), like the BMW i8 hybrid (slated for 2014 deliveries at a price of ~$120,000+ according to BMW i8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

I also agree that anyone saying that Tesla will topple one of the Big Three (err, Big Two?) is getting ahead of themselves... Tesla needs some time before anybody can make that kind of a call. Yes, Tesla is building about the same number of Model S sedans as BMW is building the 6-series sedans (around 22,000 for 2013, according to A Guide to Determining Tesla's Production Numbers), but that is still a tiny fraction compared to what BMW builds overall per year (~1.5 million).
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Old 09-06-2013, 02:22 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tele man View Post
Until *I* personally see actual:

a) battery 'production' costs
b) battery 'replacement' costs
c) demonstrated battery charge/use 'life-cycle' curves
d) promulgated emergency battery-disconnect procedures

...everything about TESLA's "halo" shouts "...too good, to be true..." to me.

So, while YMMV, I shall remain seated, at idle, with my doubts, until I see convincing DATA answering *my* concerns.
Ah, so you don't actually HAVE any information that says (or shouts?) that it is "too good to be true"? Just a lack of information? And since a few simple web searches reveal the answer to most of your concerns (and the rest may require slightly more effort), it's not that the information isn't there... it is just that you haven't taken the time to look for it and would rather take the time to cast doubt on the company instead...

OK, I get it...
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Old 09-07-2013, 05:31 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Electric motors are really about THREE TIMES as efficient as a typical ICE.

THAT is why the Tesla Model S is so much better than ICE cars. No magic is involved, just solid engineering.
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:00 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Tesla Model S continues to amaze - it is a ground breaking car!

Tesla Model S squares off against Aston Martin Rapide S

They only mention how little it costs to drive the Model S, and don't mention that it is far more efficient than a Prius...
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:53 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbaber View Post
Another point is how the company and sales will be effected when the state and federal government stop subsidizing the purchases. With all the taxpayer money pouring into their accounts it's pretty easy to be optimistic, but when the price goes up $7500 will that effect sales?
Really??? you think that people are buying a $70,000 car because they can get a $7,500 tax credit? look at the options on their web site, you can bump the price up by $20,000 if you get a few extras added on over the base model.

I've also talked to people who didn't qualify for the tax credit but bought a new EV anyway.

They are selling something that people want and it's selling well, that is where the other automakers are failing.
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:24 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I'd love to own a Tesla if I had the money. I sat in one in a Tesla store a few months ago and had the salesmen explain all the features to me. It is a very impressive car, electric or not.

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