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Old 09-03-2013, 01:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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To be honest, I had not realized that Tesla took a loan from the government, but according to the article, the loan returned profit. My dad is a Ford man and he always says that Ford begged, borrowed, and stole (hopefully not that last one) everything they could to avoid bankruptcy and taking money from the government, and that GM and Chrysler are paying back less than they borrowed.

From the article:
Quote:
Daimler has 4.87 million Tesla shares valued at $425 million, while Toyota has 2.94 million shares valued at $257 million, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
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Originally Posted by sheepdog 44 View Post
I wonder if the target of 200 miles at $40,000 is factoring in the cost of batteries going down. If not, hopefully it'll be really aerodynamic.
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Quote:
In the interview yesterday, he said he hasnít had any discussions with Apple beyond iPhone integration, and isnít looking to be acquired by anyone until he can produce ďa compelling, affordable carĒ that is less expensive than the Model S and nicer than Nissan Motor Co. (7201)ís electric-powered Leaf.

ďWith the Model S, you have a compelling car thatís too expensive for most people,Ē he said. ďAnd you have the Leaf, which is cheap, but itís not great. What the world really needs is a great, affordable electric car. Iím not going to let anything go, no matter what people offer, until I complete that mission.Ē
Quote:
Musk has beaten odds that felled John DeLorean and Preston Tucker. The Model S sedan, priced from $69,900, snagged Motor Trend magazineís Car of the Year and a rave review from Consumer Reports.

Should Tesla remain a going concern, it would be the first new U.S. automaker to do so since Walter Chrysler founded Chrysler Corp. in 1925.
I understand that the Tucker was a great car, while the DeLorean was not. I doubt that anyone would claim the difference was that Musk did not name the company for himself.

They plan on developing an electric SUV before the "lower-priced model."

I apologize to anyone who read the article, since I just repeated what you already read. Usually, when someone links an article or a YouTube video, I skip ahead to see what others comment about it, because there are other things that I should be doing.

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Old 09-03-2013, 02:44 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by HydroJim View Post
What do you guys think about how Tesla is doing?

I think they need to bring a cheaper car to market though. Their 70,000 price is really not too bad compared to other luxury cars but eventually the luxury car buyers will dry up.
That market won't dry up - but it'll be saturated.

Tesla don't really have other revenue to finance their electric cars with, so buyers pay full price for what they get.
Going for the higher markets is the only realistic way to do it
As the Tesla are decidedly up-market, while the batteries aren't cheap and there's plenty of them, the price is high.
Other car manufacturers pay their current losses on the EVs with whatever they make from regular cars.

Even then, it's a bargain compared to VW's tiny XL1 ...


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I like their battery swap idea at their tesla stations.
It's the only way I think consumers will accept electric cars for long distance trips.
The battery swap is dead already - see BetterPlace .

There's simply too few Tesla stores around to make it work.
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Tesla was a breath of fresh air in the auto industry. Sure, some car companies were contemplating an electric car, or dabbling in hybrid cars. But Tesla woke them up a bit.

But Tesla has built their Corvette, they've built their Cadillac... Now they need to bring out a $25,000-$30,000 practical Cavalier-type vehicle. Get your drive technology perfected, and adapt it to different body styles. A small CR-Z type car, a four door affordable family car, perhaps even a basic pickup truck for NAPA delivery operations.

They have amazing technology, but I wish they'd stop trying to build a Mercedes and concentrate on every day vehicles.
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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They have amazing technology, but I wish they'd stop trying to build a Mercedes and concentrate on every day vehicles.
They can, and likely will.
But they approach the market from where the money is.
Can't blame them for that.

Start with posh sporty cars, at a premium price.
Then overpriced SUVs.

Don't hold your breath for the everyday-Tesla to come around ...
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Old 09-03-2013, 06:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Tesla won't be able to sell low end cars. They can sell to the high end because those consumers buy cars for different reasons. Why would a $40,000 Tesla sell differently than a $40,000 Volt?

EV technology has a bit more to go before it's ready for the masses. The main problem is the pricetag. The technology is expensive to develop and produce. Since they don't sell EV's like they do Civic's, the consumer gets the full bill and pays a high upfront cost.

Why don't they sell like Civics? Most EV's have a range under what the masses are comfortable with. The current cars on the market don't offer anything over their gasoline competition besides being labeled as environmentally friendly. You may not have to buy gas, but you pay more up front for the technology, and it still costs money to charge. I think I read the payback period for the Nissan Leaf if gas was $4/gallon is 7 years compared to Nissan Versa. Why would the masses switch to EV if gas is cheaper for the first 7 years? Most people finance or lease the car for 5-6 years, not enough to actually benefit from an EV.

EV technology will eventually get cheaper, and companies will figure out better ways to sell them. Even though a Telsa is out of reach for most, they are paving the way for other car companies to follow.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:13 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Interesting "concept" to consider -- Induction-coupling of electrical energy *from* the roadway into onboard ultra-capacitors, via "grid" wiring embedded in the roadway!

This could *really* bring EV acceptance down to the general automotive population. However, one has to ask the obvious question: WHO pays for that electrical power and how do they BILL you?

My guess is a sudden conversion of all of the current "free" freeways into "pay-as-you-go" TOLLWAYS, where you would either: (a) prepay (rf card, etc.) or (b) the toll booths (at each terminus) would 'read' your car VIN and bill directly to your home electrical company.

Thoughts? Comments?


...and, "NO!" I am not related to Elon Musk (ha,ha).

Last edited by gone-ot; 09-03-2013 at 07:46 PM..
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I understand the cost of batteries and other tech is high. However, I don't buy that as an excuse for car companies to not market multiple options.

If a large corporation such as Toyota were to design hybrid vehicles using the same basic concepts that could be readily adapted between their Tundra, Camry, Sienna, etc lineups, then they would theoretically be able to hire a herd of professional nerds to develop their own battery technology. Why hasn't a big auto corporation bought one of these battery companies?

Don't blame the price of the technology, blame decades of "old thinking" in the boardrooms. If Elon Musk were the head honcho at GM the last 15 years, we would be lightyears ahead of where we are now.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:38 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cbaber View Post
Why would a $40,000 Tesla sell differently than a $40,000 Volt?
The Tesla Model E won't use any gas. You can power it with sunlight or with the wind; and renewable energy doesn't require a military to defend it.

And it won't hardly require any regular maintenance. Compare an EV with a typical car, and you save roughly $17,000 per 100,000 miles driven.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:41 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Tesla don't really have other revenue to finance their electric cars with, so buyers pay full price for what they get.
Eh? You must have missed the news: Tesla Motors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:Collaborations and Tesla Motors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:Partners. They are not just building the cars, but also supplying components to other (big name) manufacturers.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:56 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
The Tesla Model E won't use any gas. You can power it with sunlight or with the wind; and renewable energy doesn't require a military to defend it.

And it won't hardly require any regular maintenance. Compare an EV with a typical car, and you save roughly $17,000 per 100,000 miles driven.
Whether or not it uses gas is not the point. It's price that appeals to the masses. The Nissan Leaf is the about the closest attempt yet at a mainstream EV. Even with a range of about 100 miles per charge, it would still take the average driver 7 years to save any money compared to the comparable Nissan Versa. That includes maintenance. 7 years is too long for most. And as I mentioned, it's pretty rare for consumers to keep their vehicles that long to actually save any money by buying the EV.

If you want to talk environmentally friendly, that is a different issue. What I am talking about is making EV technology accessible to more people. And as I addressed, that means being cheaper and having more range.

BTW, how much power are the Telsa E's solar panels and wind generator able to supply? While it may sound nice to have your car supplied with renewable energy, I am skeptical of how much range the auxiliary charging methods actually provide in the real world. Certainly solar/wind alone is not enough to actually power the car, unlike the Volt which can drive only on the gas generator.

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