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Old 06-05-2019, 05:09 PM   #101 (permalink)
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So how is Tesla going to build something with worse aerodynamics than a Model X, more capability (power, load, etc) than a model X, more range than a Model X, for less than 1/2 the price of a Model X?

Promise less and deliver more. I also don't think a blank slate is always the way to go. Is the round wheel still a good plan? You don't have to throw out 2000 years of learning how to move things and people around. Sometimes just replacing the engine with a motor and the gas tank with a battery will be a better starting point.

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Old 06-05-2019, 05:50 PM   #102 (permalink)
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I remember watching a video where someone was sitting inside a Tesla without doors and said "They use bolts here, a weld here," and pointed to a third manner of fastening.

Don't they use a large number of small parts instead of designing a small number of large parts? I would think that after a while they would figure out how to merge frame pieces and save materials and weight, but have they?
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Old 06-05-2019, 05:51 PM   #103 (permalink)
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how

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Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
So how is Tesla going to build something with worse aerodynamics than a Model X, more capability (power, load, etc) than a model X, more range than a Model X, for less than 1/2 the price of a Model X?

Promise less and deliver more. I also don't think a blank slate is always the way to go. Is the round wheel still a good plan? You don't have to throw out 2000 years of learning how to move things and people around. Sometimes just replacing the engine with a motor and the gas tank with a battery will be a better starting point.
It's possible that the new platform will be shared with the pickup,a full-sized SUV (Denali,Navigator,Sequoia,Armada-killer)as a follow on,as well as a passenger van.
Spirit was Cd 0.29 as an BEV at DARKO.without any tail.I think Tesla could bring their pickup in at, or below that,with a factory tonneau.I don't know what the frontal area will be.
The motor torque is more important than horsepower.Dual motors would allow the induction motor to be decoupled once up to speed,for range extending,like in the long-range Model-3.
The larger 'footprint' of the truck would allow for a larger pack and range.The economies of the Giga-Factory may allow for lower cost packs over time.
Extra mass might actually improve regenerative breaking and overall performance on the EPA cycles (Volvo found this to be true of their SUVs).
If they get the platform right,it could go 20-years before a refresh or body-in-white.The tooling would be long paid off and just free money.Same for all the other R&D.'Modular' construction.Shared components.The guts you rarely see.
I don't know what their margins are.Aston Martin's never made a dollar.Why are they still around?
If Trump's Mexico tariffs go through,that could be the end of RAM trucks.
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Old 06-05-2019, 06:03 PM   #104 (permalink)
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have they

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Originally Posted by Xist View Post
I remember watching a video where someone was sitting inside a Tesla without doors and said "They use bolts here, a weld here," and pointed to a third manner of fastening.

Don't they use a large number of small parts instead of designing a small number of large parts? I would think that after a while they would figure out how to merge frame pieces and save materials and weight, but have they?
That's production engineering and it's as top-secret as it gets in auto manufacturing.Companies do buy each others products to disassemble and benchmark.Certain practices may be patented,so they might have to modify something enough to qualify as novel enough to warrant its own design patent.
Robotic spot-welding is where the money is.Anything and everything that can go that way,will go that way.Multi-metal lasered sheetmetal blanks for stamping.Hydroforming.
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:05 PM   #105 (permalink)
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My money is still on Tesla. Rivian is probably building off existing frames and not approaching the design problem as a blank slate.
Rivian developed their own platform, which they had on display at the NY Auto Show last fall. It's a skateboard design with the motors between the wheels, similar to Tesla:



They've made clever use of space. There's a huge front trunk, and a pass-through between the bed and cab that can hold skis, snowboards, golf clubs, etc. (and the door doubles as a seat).

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Old 06-05-2019, 07:05 PM   #106 (permalink)
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I'm one of the few excited about this on here? I'd love to have one even at the $50k price (just like that $35k model 3 ) without the incredible promised acceleration. Could be my last vehicle purchase.
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Old 06-05-2019, 08:45 PM   #107 (permalink)
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It's possible that the new platform will be shared with the pickup,a full-sized SUV (Denali,Navigator,Sequoia,Armada-killer)as a follow on
I hope so. These heavy, expensive turds are my least favorite of all vehicles.
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Old 06-05-2019, 10:33 PM   #108 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Xist View Post
Someone shared a rendering of an S converted into a pickup:



What will they call it? Ford trademarked both "Lightning" and "Model-T."
That's the Tesla Model L...

...Camino.
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:44 AM   #109 (permalink)
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The Model X is more complex than the Model 3 and largely handbuilt.
The Pickup will be simpler and production will be even more automated (because it is simpler and easier to access).
If Rivian can build their pickups for the price they project, Tesla should be able to build something similar way cheaper.
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Old 06-06-2019, 10:36 AM   #110 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
My money is still on Tesla. Rivian is probably building off existing frames and not approaching the design problem as a blank slate. Tesla will probably exceed most metrics compared to Rivian while costing a little less. My assumption is based on the fact that Tesla currently outsells other EV sedans by orders of magnitude, at close to the lowest price point.
The Rivian designs are ground up electric drivetrains.

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