Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-27-2019, 07:37 PM   #31 (permalink)
EcoModding Newb
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,704

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.07 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 28.08 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,194
Thanked 2,548 Times in 1,882 Posts
What does a grease monkey know about "impressive" engineering? Sure, it's possible the autobody guy knows something, but it isn't likely. At any rate, the consensus does seem to suggest the body is the least well engineered system, which is fortunate because it's the most superficial.

Speaking of superficial, I wouldn't back into my garage in the first place, but if I did, I'd probably live with whatever superficial damage occurred since it's likely to happen again, and doesn't affect my enjoyment of the vehicle.

Should I decide to fix superficial damage, I'd do it myself. Worst case I'd hire someone handy with bondo and a paint sprayer. There's no scenario where I drop $6k on aesthetics, or allow my insurance premiums to skyrocket.

Someone backed into the front end of our Prius and caused a grand in damage to the bumper cover and some other little bits. There's a fist size hole now, but an extra grand in my bank account. Wish I could get that lucky more often.

__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!

Last edited by redpoint5; 04-27-2019 at 07:49 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 04-27-2019, 08:38 PM   #32 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 1,818

Dark Egg - '12 VW Touareg TDI Sport AWD
90 day: 25.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 129
Thanked 664 Times in 452 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
What does a grease monkey know about "impressive" engineering? Sure, it's possible the autobody guy knows something, but it isn't likely. At any rate, the consensus does seem to suggest the body is the least well engineered system, which is fortunate because it's the most superficial.

Speaking of superficial, I wouldn't back into my garage in the first place, but if I did, I'd probably live with whatever superficial damage occurred since it's likely to happen again, and doesn't affect my enjoyment of the vehicle.

Should I decide to fix superficial damage, I'd do it myself. Worst case I'd hire someone handy with bondo and a paint sprayer. There's no scenario where I drop $6k on aesthetics, or allow my insurance premiums to skyrocket.

Someone backed into the front end of our Prius and caused a grand in damage to the bumper cover and some other little bits. There's a fist size hole now, but an extra grand in my bank account. Wish I could get that lucky more often.
Oh I agree, I'd pocket ANY damage claim and fix whatever myself to however I want it for a fraction of what shops charge. The problem is, this on most any other car would have been a $2-3000 hit being generous. What that means is insurance is going to cost more as these averages "pile up". Pun intended.

I do think mechanics know way more than you might give them credit for and he's outside the control of Tesla or any car maker for that matter so I trust his partiality. I think part of any automotive mechanical engineering degree should be at least one summer at a mechanical repair shop, one summer at a body shop, and one summer on the assembly line. Then we might get some well engineering cars.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2019, 09:20 PM   #33 (permalink)
EcoModding Newb
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,704

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.07 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 28.08 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,194
Thanked 2,548 Times in 1,882 Posts
Can't disagree with any of that. Part of vehicle design is ease of repair and maintenance. I think insurance premiums have been shown to be higher for Tesla, probably partially due to cost to repair.

Experiencing the thing you are designing for is important regardless of what it is. I've often thought it would be good if judges spent 24hrs in prison so when they say someone deserves a particular sentence, they have some context for asserting that, and also have a better understanding of the environment which usually is not conducive to rehabilitation.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2019, 11:57 PM   #34 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
roflwaffle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,488

Camryaro - '92 Toyota Camry LE V6
90 day: 31.12 mpg (US)

Red - '00 Honda Insight

Prius - '05 Toyota Prius

3 - '18 Tesla Model 3
90 day: 152.47 mpg (US)
Thanks: 348
Thanked 119 Times in 78 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
A friend of mine has a 2016 Model X. She paid $8000 for Autopilot + Full Self Driving. She was promised an over the air software update in 2-3 years that will turn her car into a fully autonomous vehicle. How long should she have to wait before Tesla is forced to refund that $8000?
Does she have something from Tesla stating that they'll turn her car into a fully autonomous vehicle in 2-3 years? If not, it'll be hard to force a refund from Tesla.

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 02:58 PM   #35 (permalink)
JSH
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 832

City Slicker - '16 Chevy Spark EV
90 day: 171.07 mpg (US)

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 17
Thanked 371 Times in 267 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by roflwaffle View Post
Does she have something from Tesla stating that they'll turn her car into a fully autonomous vehicle in 2-3 years? If not, it'll be hard to force a refund from Tesla.

Musk likes to leave a twitter trail. This is just one tweet:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/823727035088416768
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JSH For This Useful Post:
Xist (05-15-2019)
Old 04-29-2019, 03:14 PM   #36 (permalink)
EcoModding Newb
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,704

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.07 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 28.08 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,194
Thanked 2,548 Times in 1,882 Posts
Twitter is an entertainment platform, not a news outlet. As such, users know that absolutely anything on there should be for entertainment value, and not for making important life decisions. Twitter's usefulness beyond entertainment probably doesn't extend much further than announcing when a party starts for a large audience.

That said, the context of the "6 month" reply was in this question:

Quote:
At what point will "Full Self-Driving Capability" features noticeably depart from "Enhanced Autopilot" features?
That is a subjective question. What is the definition of "noticeably"? If the full self drive package received any update in which someone noticed the change, and it was not offered on the autopilot version, then it would be easy to argue that the Tweet was fulfilled technically, even if it missed the spirit of the question. In other words, it doesn't constitute a legal obligation.

I'm not saying Tesla/Musk is ethical, just saying that the other side of the picture is that consumers chose to "invest" in something which is not guaranteed, and have some responsibility for setting their expectations accordingly.

If some company said "we're definitely going to double battery capacity by the time your car is built", I wouldn't pre-purchase the car. It would be ludicrous for me to do so because implementing new technology or finding breakthroughs isn't a predictable thing. We all know that you should see something demonstrated before investing in it; but an abundance of enthusiasm clouds our judgement... and perhaps that enthusiasm is exactly what it took for Tesla to stand a chance of viability.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 12:37 AM   #37 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
roflwaffle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,488

Camryaro - '92 Toyota Camry LE V6
90 day: 31.12 mpg (US)

Red - '00 Honda Insight

Prius - '05 Toyota Prius

3 - '18 Tesla Model 3
90 day: 152.47 mpg (US)
Thanks: 348
Thanked 119 Times in 78 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Musk likes to leave a twitter trail. This is just one tweet:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/823727035088416768
As much as I want it to, "noticeably depart" != the car driving itself while someone sleeps in the back.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 02:17 AM   #38 (permalink)
JSH
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 832

City Slicker - '16 Chevy Spark EV
90 day: 171.07 mpg (US)

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 17
Thanked 371 Times in 267 Posts
I got a chance to look at the SEC filing.

First the good:
  • Tesla's accounts payable went down. This means that they are paying their suppliers instead of delaying payment to try to show a profit. (Like they did in 3Q2018)
  • Tesla expanded their supercharger network by 33%

Then the bad:
  • Solar installations dropped 38% YoY
  • Powerwall installation dropped 39% YoY
  • R&D spending dropped YoY and QoQ
  • Captial spending dropped YoY and QoQ
  • Tesla not only burned through $1.5 billion in cash they also added $385 million to their debt.

YoY = Year over Year
QoQ = Quarter over Quarter

Last edited by JSH; 05-02-2019 at 01:14 PM.. Reason: EDIT: $385 billion to million
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 02:52 AM   #39 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Radium Springs, NM
Posts: 428

Ford XLT Naked - '14 Ford F-150 XLT
90 day: 15.04 mpg (US)

Ford G-4 with Stinger - '14 Ford F-150 4X4 Super Crew XLT
90 day: 19.8 mpg (US)

Ford Stealth G-4 - '14 Ford F-150 4X4 Super Crew XLT
90 day: 17.7 mpg (US)

XLT Towing Keystone 5th wheel trailer - '14 Ford Keystone 5th Wheel XLT
90 day: 8.04 mpg (US)

Trip 2015 C Max Energi - '15 Ford C Max Energi SWP
90 day: 38.2 mpg (US)

Local 120 volt 2015 C-Max Energi - '15 Ford C-Max Energy SEL
90 day: 55.65 mpg (US)

Local 240 volt 2015 C-Max Energi - '15 Ford C Max Energi SLE
90 day: 57.63 mpg (US)

Energi IC only - '15 Ford C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 31.84 mpg (US)

Energi EV Only - '15 Ford C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 115.79 mpg (US)

Energi Combined - '15 C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 53.68 mpg (US)

Ford Explorer - '20 Ford Explorer XLT
90 day: 24.33 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2
Thanked 484 Times in 250 Posts
All this first quarter numbers reporting I am seeing here is just wrong. See attached link to Now You Know report on the Tesla first quarter financials.

https://youtu.be/dBCSA5voamQ
__________________




  Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 03:02 AM   #40 (permalink)
JSH
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 832

City Slicker - '16 Chevy Spark EV
90 day: 171.07 mpg (US)

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 17
Thanked 371 Times in 267 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerostealth View Post
All this first quarter numbers reporting I am seeing here is just wrong. See attached link to Now You Know report on the Tesla first quarter financials.

https://youtu.be/dBCSA5voamQ
Why would you go to youtube when you can go to the source?

https://ir.tesla.com/static-files/b2...5-050eb29dd42f

It is only 10 pages long.

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JSH For This Useful Post:
Xist (05-15-2019)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com