Thinking about a Gen1 HCH

[BabyDiesel]

Thanks to all the replies everyone

Looks like I have a lot of deciding to do between the HCH, Pruis and the Fit! They all have their positives and negatives for sure.

It will be around 4 years before we will begin to start a family, so this car might last until the 1st newborn gets here, or it may be sold before then. All in all, they are all nicer than my current "deathtrap" ZX2

I really like the Prius, it is the fact that when the battery goes, the car dies with it until a new $$$ battery is put in. This makes me really question if I want one, as the Honda Hybrids are drivable when the batteries start dying. Prius's hold their value around here (NC), too.

Leg room is not a high priority, as my fiance is 4' 7", so her seat will be slid all the way up all the time, giving the person in the back plenty of room No one ever wants to ride with me anyhow!

We have other vehicles to haul stuff in, including the stripped out ZX2 that can carry 16' 2x4s now, her Corolla and eventually my barn-on-wheels K5 Blazer.

All the vehicles mentioned can get 60 mpg, no there is no contest there. ...Although if the HCH1 is mine, the goal is a 82 mpg tank, no excuses

Doax, what kind of work did the HCH require?

Red Devil, that sounds like quite the life, I love the sound of it. I know kids will be difficult, but there's just something about having my own that I can't wait for! Your children sounds similar to me when I was their age, so I kinda know your struggle, as I see what did to my parents now that I look back I hope we have 2 girls and a boy of our own, and we plan to adopt and/or foster.

Mr. Pancake, thank you for all the information! Good to know that I have an almost 0% chance of finding a non-lean burn HCH in NC. I'm looking out for a manual now, as I when checked on the CVT replacement prices and reliability ->

Here is the only 5spd HCH1 in my area on CL :Honda CIVIC Hybrid STICK SHIFT2004 I can probably get it a lil bit cheaper than this.

This is a possibility: Buy a HCH1 for now and enjoy it for the next couple years. When we decide to start a family, sell the HCH and find a lightly used Prius 4 Eco, Fit Hybrid or the like then for family purposes. Yeah, I like the sound of that

[Daox]

Sounds like a good option. I am partial to owning a car but not NEEDING to keep it super long unless I fall in love with it. You can swap em out and have fun learning new and different things with each vehicle.

The 02 Civic LX (it was not a hybrid) with 180k miles needed:
head gasket
a couple new valves
timing belt & water pump
spark plugs
valve cover gasket
control arm bushings
camshaft seal
front motor mount
both accessory belts
ball joints
filters (oil and cabin)
valve adjustment
trans fluid change
electronic load detector
front sway bar endlinks
transmission dipstick
driver's door interior handle
paint touch up
hood release cable
some light bulbs
alignment


18 pages of fixing it in my EM thread here: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ing-29210.html

[Gasoline Fumes]

Originally Posted by BabyDiesel

I really like the Prius, it is the fact that when the battery goes, the car dies with it until a new $$$ battery is put in. This makes me really question if I want one, as the Honda Hybrids are drivable when the batteries start dying. Prius's hold their value around here (NC), too.

But the Hondas have a lot more battery issues compared to the Prius. The only advantage I see to the HCH is the availability of a manual trans.

[BabyDiesel]

Originally Posted by Daox

Sounds like a good option. I am partial to owning a car but not NEEDING to keep it super long unless I fall in love with it. You can swap em out and have fun learning new and different things with each vehicle.

The 02 Civic LX (it was not a hybrid) with 180k miles needed:
head gasket
a couple new valves
timing belt & water pump
spark plugs
valve cover gasket
control arm bushings
camshaft seal
front motor mount
both accessory belts
ball joints
filters (oil and cabin)
valve adjustment
trans fluid change
electronic load detector
front sway bar endlinks
transmission dipstick
driver's door interior handle
paint touch up
hood release cable
some light bulbs
alignment


18 pages of fixing it in my EM thread here: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ing-29210.html

Thank you for the link and the information Tim. That is quite the list, but most of it appears to be normal wear-and-tear items. I have fun doing those types of repairs The first thing I will do if i get a HCH is timing belt and water pump, as the engine is interference and I do not want to replace valves!

Originally Posted by Gasoline Fumes

But the Hondas have a lot more battery issues compared to the Prius. The only advantage I see to the HCH is the availability of a manual trans.

This true, I have seen this on this forum and other forums as well. I've been reading about Honda Hybrid battery care from Wayne Gerdes on GreenHybrid and there is some food for thought there... I think the pains of learning and handling HCH battery will develop a greater love for hybrids for when I do get a comfy Prius

The manual is a big plus for the HCH over the Prius. I want to be able to EOC safely after seeing all you guys do it for so long with great results

Now, if there was a Stage 1 or 2 rebuild kit for a CVT, I would get a CVT HCH. But it appears there is not one... though the rebuild kits are not expensive at all... $185 off of Ebay. If there was only someone around here to rebuild one for a decent price!

Actually, it looks like it can be done for MUCH cheaper than what Honda would want for a new CVT -> Does anyone rebuild the CVT"s (automatic trans)? - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum This might open up another possibility

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Why don't you just get a regular Civic and do the aeromods to match the hybrid (or eventually go a little further)? On a sidenote, I wouldn't doubt that a redneck-engineered BAS-Hybrid setup might be more reliable than the IMA

[BabyDiesel]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Why don't you just get a regular Civic and do the aeromods to match the hybrid (or eventually go a little further)? On a sidenote, I wouldn't doubt that a redneck-engineered BAS-Hybrid setup might be more reliable than the IMA

Good question.

I am wanting a 4 door sedan so my passengers will not have to crawl over the front seats like in my coupe (ZX2). It also has a smaller engine (1.3, better BSFC) and lean burn, and while not as aggressive as the Insight, can and should be able to get 80+ mpg *easier* than most other vehicles.

I'm crazy, yet confident, that I can achieve 100 mpg with a HCH. A regular Civic getting 100 mpg would be possible only in competition.

Desiring a sedan crosses out the Insight, CRX, CRZ and VX

The starting Cd is 0.28, so I should get below 0.25 fairly easy with simple mods (grill block, lowering, underbody panels, rear wheel skirts, front gap fillers). I'm going to basically copy MetroMPG's Civic build, boat tail and all with my own flave and variations IF I get one, that is. There are a couple around (CVTs) that I could snag for $1000-$1300... the search continues onward.

[Mr. Pancake]

Originally Posted by BabyDiesel

Thank you for the link and the information Tim. That is quite the list, but most of it appears to be normal wear-and-tear items. I have fun doing those types of repairs The first thing I will do if i get a HCH is timing belt and water pump, as the engine is interference and I do not want to replace valves!

HCH has a timing chain, no need to replace.

[elhigh]

I can tell you a few things:

1) I'm 5'10, the wife is 5'2, two kids at 6'0 and 5'8. No one ever complains about legroom. And the taller kid generally sits behind me, so it really isn't as bad as all that. For longer trips he switches and sits behind the wife and it's quite comfortable for everyone.

2) Not having to think about a timing belt EVER is more freeing than you can imagine.

3) Lean burn is great until an O2 sensor goes. Interpreting which sensor has failed is not easy - there's three and my reader's explanation of which one doesn't always make sense. *sigh* Back to the dealership.

4) Vehicle is completely driveable with the IMA light on. Mine has been on for over a year now, though its condition has improved markedly with a deep discharge and grid charge.

5) Absolutely get the MT if you get an HCH. The CVT is a known weak spot. Supposedly there is also a known weak spot at the 2nd gear syncro, but mine has been working well.

6) The car responds well to the usual hypermiling tricks, especially EOC with the 5MT. Most days I have a 2-mile coast on the way home, as well as other shorter ones.

Would I buy another one: NO.

I love the fuel mileage and the space inside is quite good. But I can do nearly that well with other cars and dodge some of the budget-eating problems that are peculiar to hybrids. Given my druthers I would shop for a well-cared for four-door hatch from the mid-80s. Yes, as old as that.

[BabyDiesel]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pancake

HCH has a timing chain, no need to replace.

That is bulgogi to my taste buds
(Favorite Korean dish)

Originally Posted by elhigh

I can tell you a few things:

1) I'm 5'10, the wife is 5'2, two kids at 6'0 and 5'8. No one ever complains about legroom. And the taller kid generally sits behind me, so it really isn't as bad as all that. For longer trips he switches and sits behind the wife and it's quite comfortable for everyone.

2) Not having to think about a timing belt EVER is more freeing than you can imagine.

3) Lean burn is great until an O2 sensor goes. Interpreting which sensor has failed is not easy - there's three and my reader's explanation of which one doesn't always make sense. *sigh* Back to the dealership.

4) Vehicle is completely driveable with the IMA light on. Mine has been on for over a year now, though its condition has improved markedly with a deep discharge and grid charge.

5) Absolutely get the MT if you get an HCH. The CVT is a known weak spot. Supposedly there is also a known weak spot at the 2nd gear syncro, but mine has been working well.

6) The car responds well to the usual hypermiling tricks, especially EOC with the 5MT. Most days I have a 2-mile coast on the way home, as well as other shorter ones.

Would I buy another one: NO.

I love the fuel mileage and the space inside is quite good. But I can do nearly that well with other cars and dodge some of the budget-eating problems that are peculiar to hybrids. Given my druthers I would shop for a well-cared for four-door hatch from the mid-80s. Yes, as old as that.

Lots of good pros and cons, thank you elhigh! I'm on the lookout for a manual... but, I might get a CVT. Since I know that they can be rebuilt DIY for ~$500-800, and will reduce rpm/increase load automatically when I do more serious aero mods, I'm not against one.

Maybe it's my young mindset, but I am thinking that I can avoid CVT failure with a proper rebuild and TLC. Take my ZX2 for example. Everyone says that the autos are worthless and crap out quickly. I approach 285K today (got it at 199K) and wonder why this is said, as the transmission acts just as good as the day I got it several years back, pulls great and no issues whatsoever.

[elhigh]

I have read from more than one source that the CVT's reliability can be improved with conscientious maintenance - mostly fluid changes if I recall. It looked to me like maintenance pretty far above and beyond what the owner's manual called for, which is asking a lot from the hoi polloi but within the reach of the ecomodder community, I think - and a guy banging on the 50mpg door with an auto Escort probably wouldn't bat an eye.