Thoughts on Prius Powertrain in Gen1 Insight?

[vskid3]

So I'm not really considering doing this (if I did a swap, it would be more for power than mileage), but I was wondering how you guys think it would do.
The Insight's engine+IMA can produce about 75hp and it weighs 1850lbs. The Gen2 ('04-09) Prius produces a total of 110hp and weighs 2900lbs. That puts the Insight at about 2/3rds the power and weight of the Prius. Just swapping the powertrain straight over should give a decent increase in mileage over the Prius, probably on par with the stock Insight powertrain. Weight shouldn't increase by more than about 200lbs from my very rough calculations. The CVT should keep the ICE RPM's lower to match the reduced load. But what if we modify the final drive to take advantage of the lower weight and drag of the Insight? What if it was 1.5x higher, so that instead of EV/ICE off coasting maxing out at ~40mph, it would be able to go til 60mph to do some high speed pulse and glide?

Not really sure where I'm going with this. I'm just kind of curious how the two different systems would compare in the Insight. I'm sure my wife is sick of hearing my ideas, but I'm among friends here.

[RedDevil]

It is not just an engine swap. You'd need to swap the whole gearbox, electronics and hybrid system too.
The Toyota HSD gearbox is totally different from the Insights CVT - if you have that on hand, because the 5 speed MT was more popular (and economical).
The Insight is not the largest of cars around, it might not fit.

The Insight has a low carrying capacity, so if you increase the weight you need to upgrade the suspension as well.

If I had a Gen1 Insight I'd like to install a small PHEV booster pack.
I've got a Gen2 Insight and I sure want a small PHEV booster pack in that

[IamIan]

Originally Posted by vskid3

Just swapping the powertrain straight over should give a decent increase in mileage over the Prius, probably on par with the stock Insight powertrain.

Weight shouldn't increase by more than about 200lbs from my very rough calculations.

Whole Prius Drive train ( ICE + Planetary-Gear ) in a lighter & more Aerodynamic (less total CdA Drag) Gen-1 Insight would get better MPG than OEM Prius.

mileage "on par with the stock Insight"... maybe close ... but I think MPG will over all go down a little bit ... around 3 to 5 % on the same route and same average speeds ... that ~200lbs you reference would be an automatic ~10% rolling resistance penalty all by itself... and a ~10% inertia penalty on every acceleration.

Originally Posted by vskid3

Not really sure where I'm going with this. I'm just kind of curious how the two different systems would compare in the Insight. I'm sure my wife is sick of hearing my ideas, but I'm among friends here.

One of the big benefits the Prius Drive Train gets is from the power splitting planetary gear type of transmission ... just swapping the ICE over will loose any of those benefits.

Best of luck... post lots of pictures as you go.

[vskid3]

I meant swapping the whole powertrain, engine, tranny, battery, etc. I'm not planning on doing this any time soon (if ever), but if I ever happened to have an Insight in need of an engine or tranny, I would consider it more.

Right now I'm just pondering the different ways each of them gets great mileage. In my Prius, P&G is what gets me 60mpg tanks in the summer. With the Insight, its more constant speed in lean burn that gets the big numbers. One of the reasons people give for the Insight not being viable now is that it wouldn't pass emissions with lean burn and thus wouldn't get as good of mileage. The Prius' system would pass emissions, but would the mileage be as good?
Just thinking out loud.

[Cobb]

If the best mpg you can get in a prius is 60 with pg, then you must have the parking brake depressed 5 clicks. Just fill the tires to sidewall psi and you should get 65mpg plus keeping up with traffic.

The prius is a whale of a car when it comes to the other eco vehicle of early 2000. THe gen 1 insight is slightly smaller than a 3 door geo metro.I doubt you can get all the crap under the hood of a prius under the hood of a gen 1 insight.

Now if you just want to use the engine, theres a guy here who put a prius engine in another toy, but the engine alone isnt what leads to the fuel economy of that car.

[vskid3]

Originally Posted by Cobb

If the best mpg you can get in a prius is 60 with pg, then you must have the parking brake depressed 5 clicks. Just fill the tires to sidewall psi and you should get 65mpg plus keeping up with traffic.

I have the LRR tires at 51PSI. I have several factors working against me, like a 5 mile commute done 6 times a day, 100F temps during the summer that require at least a little AC to keep me from melting, and other trips that aren't quite as kind to my fuel economy.
Now that I have my Insight, the Prius is mainly my wife's car now. I expect that she'll be able to average at least 50MPG in it, which is better than most '05 Prii on Fuelly.

If the Gen2 powertrain is too big, it looks like the C's is a little more compact. Or it could be turned into a mid-engine car with the engine in the trunk and the battery up front (I've seen a v6 swap into an Insight that went this route).

[Cobb]

There are way more ways to make a car or vehicle more efficient than to shoe horn the drive train froma prius into it.

Have you vsited 99mpg car? Mike has done quite a few things over the years to get more mpg from his insight. He added a phev kit. He added a 5th wheel that was powered by 4 deep cycle batteries just to name a few. He even made a way to manually control the ima system.

[Bill the Engineer]

Have you seen the page by Autobeyours?

Bill the engineer

[Cobb]

Cant say hacking and welding the body peaks my interest. I like the phev aspect. I wished I see more engine mods. Maybe one modded for ethanol with a much higher cr, different cam profile, etc?