Time to fire up my old Hydrogen generators

[TheEnemy]

I can't seem to find it, but

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...e-16860-5.html

I think it is referenced in one of the papers I linked in a previous thread. I didn't have access to the paper so I couldn't get the specifics.

[BLSTIC]

I don't think that it would be feasible to add a function that can reduce the current draw at idle, as the small amount of hydrogen being generated (relative to engine airflow anyway) may not be enough to affect things except at idle.

As for ignition timing, we will see. I'll wait until I have everything going again to see. If it shows promise on the B2000 I'll hook it up to my own far more modern car

My own car has a few modern niceties like sequntial injection, a knock sensor, EDIS, and a very forgiving (doesn't throw a hissy fit with a disconnected o2 sensor) EEC-V management system. If I get any results on the B2000, it's onto the dyno for an hour when I can afford it with my this one (which also has a 120 amp alternator as factory)...

[Joenavy85]

Originally Posted by BLSTIC

as the small amount of hydrogen being generated (relative to engine airflow anyway) may not be enough to affect things except at idle.

Of course you don't need to affect things at idle, since you shouldn't idle that much anyway.

(which also has a 120 amp alternator as factory)...

Better check the alternator fuse, since it's likely only 60-80 Amps, if that.

As much as I think you'll find no improvement by doing this, it's nice to see somebody who is actually going to test it, rather than spout loads of BS about how it works and not have any actual evidence. Obviously this requires you to show actual evidence, even if there is no improvement, or a negative effect. I do think it will help slightly in the absolute sense (that the hydrogen helps regardless of other factors), but I'm 99% sure that the extra fuel used due to the high alternator load will more than cancel out any improvement.

[dcb]

I'm glad you are willing to test it too, but am skeptical about anyones ability to be swayed at this point.

I will say for my own part that I will have a lot more questions if you do show a gain, as such a gain still needs to be satisfactorily explained so that it can be repeatable, but in the end I will always defer to empirical evidence over theories.

I'm sure you may face numerous questions from other parties if it doesn't work, asking to introduce more variables without controls and any failure to comply will be sufficient to not change their perspective. But there needs to be a way to compensate for any tuning beyond hooking up an hho device (i.e. ignition changes), you cannot assume your pre-hho had the benefit of such efficiency tuning and any gains might not be the result of the hho in that case, presumably you know this however.

[BLSTIC]

I plan to run the test at idle like this:

Hook up the unit so that there is airflow through the bubbler tank going into the engine at all times (hooking the bubber up to vacuum and introducing a small leak would work well). When the engine is hot, turn on the cell (this will introduce H2 and O2 into the already flowing airstream). If the idle changes AT ALL, turn the unit off and see if the idle returns to normal. This will test for changes to combustion.

If there is no change, turn the unit off, and tune the motor (ignition timing and fuel mixture screw) for the leanest possible mixture. Then turn the unit on and see if I can make it run leaner again. This will test for lean burn limits.

If either test is promising, the unit will be installed on my far more modern vehicle, and to the dyno i go...

[MPaulHolmes]

Sounds like a perfect plan! I can't wait to hear how it goes. Well, I can't wait to read how it goes.

[dcb]

Just thinking out loud here. If you inject it upstream of the throttle it will probably "mix" better, and not interfere with idle speed as much, but will need more time to stabilize.

[dcb]

hmm, if there is enough of the h and o added upstream of the throttle, that h is extra volumous for the energy content and might displace too much energy for the given throttle setting, causing it to drop rpm.

If you inject it downstream of the throttle, it is basically stoic and extra energy bypassing the throttle plate, and should up the RPM.

[dcb]

ok, so, back up a little bit. If you do not change the idle throttle position, but you increase the load on the alternator (so you can make hydrogen/o2 to inject downstream of the throttle), you should probably still see a drop in rpm.

I would probably get it running then disconnect the battery and then turn on the hho so you know you are not borrowing any battery power.

[BLSTIC]

I was going to power the system with a separate battery, the only part of the system on the car will be the hose going from my bubbler into the intake manifold.