Turbo as a charger?

[gumby79]

Originally Posted by freebeard

I was just providing the top current links on Google; I didn't review them. I don't know what Mazda do. BMW use two clutches, so the turbo can spin up quickly, then run as a conventional turbo, then run as an exhaust driven generator.

Try again this time read the article before before spouting off miss information

What’s unusual is the number of boosters planned for the future M3. The rumor mill says three: two conventional turbochargers plus one spun by an electric motor in lieu of exhaust gas.
Beltless Blower: Electrifying the Supercharger - Tech Dept. - Car and Driver

Nothing about the clutch is mentioned in the article.

The alternator is programmed to charge the battery primarily during deceleration. This relieves the engine of the charging load, which, in conjunction with additional electrically driven accessories, yields a worthwhile mileage improvement.

Further evidence of BMW’s enthusiasm for electricity is an experimental thermoelectric generator shown at last fall’s Frankfurt auto show.
same article

[QUOTE]Sound hybrid-pricey? Supercapacitors are generally more expensive to make than batteries, but costs are coming down. Mazda's system comes as part of a big $2600 tech package on a $27,000 Mazda 3, so it's safe to say the supercap is ready for the mainstream.How electric superchargers went from fantasy to feasibility[/QUOTE ]

I don't mean to be upsetting , but you are a well respected member of the Community whose options matter, and up to now were taken as well informed. When you stated a reference a link as a sorce for information that has . No bearing on your information stated as fact, in fact it is the agreement for what we are trying to get past the Idea Stage is feasible. And as a well respected mimber of the Community request that this doable idea be moved to the Unicorn Coral with contradicting citations as evidence. This as quoted from in Hyperlink #17

"This is the technology that takes electric supercharging out of the realm of snake-oil fantasy and into legitimacy."
How electric superchargers went from fantasy to feasibility

as stated in same article in the past these things did belong in the Coral . Now with current technology it no longer is unobtainable.

---------------
Tighten the hose clamps on a home built BMW unit and the inefficiency losses should help to keep the speeds in check s o the 70,000 BMW motor dusent frag. But parts are available to go past 200,000 .

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Using an exhaust-driven generator integrated to the turbocharger doesn't seem to belong in the unicorn corral, but I still consider it more as a complementary source of electricity instead of a replacement for a traditional alternator. The only way to get rid of the alternator in a production car with an internal-combustion engine so far is still a hybrid setup, but it's also possible to keep the alternator and actually use it as an auxiliary motor to provide some mild-hybrid ability like in GM's e-Assist.

[gumby79]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Using an exhaust-driven generator integrated to the turbocharger doesn't seem to belong in the unicorn corral, but I still consider it more as a complementary source of electricity instead of a replacement for a traditional alternator. The only way to get rid of the alternator in a production car with an internal-combustion engine so far is still a hybrid setup, but it's also possible to keep the alternator and actually use it as an auxiliary motor to provide some mild-hybrid ability like in GM's e-Assist.

Thank you
As for supplemental power agreed.
As for getting rid of the alt.

BMW’s EfficientDynamics strategy relies on the recycling of normally wasted energy, using electricity as the medium. The alternator is programmed to charge the battery primarily during deceleration. This relieves the engine of the charging load, which, in conjunction with additional electrically driven accessories, yields a worthwhile mileage improvement.

Further evidence of BMW’s enthusiasm for electricity is an experimental thermoelectric generator shown at last fall’s Frankfurt auto show. This device uses semiconductor materials to convert waste-exhaust heat directly into electrical energy, which is also stored in the battery.

Keep it just repurpose it similar to how member of the Community have posted on Ecomodder.com... toggle switch and more complicated. Some go as far as complete removal. Not me with a 200A load @start-up, from Grid Heater, for up to 45 sec. And cycling till IAT remains above 60°f.
The thermoelectric generator could convince me however to do the alt. delete or this discussion makes headway. From a potential parts list consept . To prototype and beyond.

------____------
Funding for me is gonna be really tight for the next year. So for now I am working out the conceptual bugs and building a parts list. And you guys /gals are trying to accomplish the same thing as me . Kill the for see able bugsand arrive at f functional prototype.
I am learning how to communicate In writen Form. This will take time thank you for being patient.
Gumby stay flexible.

[gumby79]

Also as an end game. If and only if we find a non-crankshaft power supply, then we can dust off Browns Gas and pull it out of the Unicorn Coral .
Gumby stay flexible

[freebeard]

I don't mean to be upsetting , but you are a well respected member of the Community whose options matter, and up to now were taken as well informed.

Well thanks for that; but I've always thought that I run hot and cold. So people have to think about what I say, instead of accepting or ignoring it out of hand.

This is not an area of expertise and I don't really care that much, but here is the original story from the 2011 patent.


BMW Patents Its Electric Turbocharger Technology. More Power, Less Lag.

The clutches are at 6 and 7. I think this is shipping in 2016 models but once again I don't care. Audi has an electric kompressor but I think it doesn't do regen.

I am learning how to communicate In writen Form. This will take time thank you for being patient.

That explains a lot. You said it just in time, I was tempted to go all Grammar Nazi but now I won't.

[serialk11r]

The clutch isn't really necessary, it just saves a little bit of drag on the compressor wheel, which doesn't really matter if you're not running at full throttle anyways.

If I ever get a turbo car I want to try DIYing an electric turbo.

[gumby79]

You can put a prototype on a non turbo for the $$ because of the prototype failure =new turbo new engine if plumbed as a funnel . When I get to a building point it will be a secondary turbo. Tookeep the bits and pieces out of the engine. Unless we can get past the consept stage.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

The only possibility I see for the regular belt-driven alternator to remain widespread in a next generation of vehicles is some integration of it into some sort of KERS, e-Assist, i-Eloop, EfficientDynamic, whatever you may name it. Among the high pressure for an increase in the overall efficiency, including the widespread of start-stop reaching even in the Diesels, one can easily predict that some hybrid-like feature will be present in all the newly-developed cars in about 10 years.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

The only possibility I see for the regular belt-driven alternator to remain widespread in a next generation of vehicles is some integration of it into some sort of KERS, e-Assist, i-Eloop, EfficientDynamic, whatever you may name it. Among the high pressure for an increase in the overall efficiency, including the widespread of start-stop reaching even in the Diesels, one can easily predict that some hybrid-like feature will be present in all the newly-developed cars in about 10 years.

Belt drive is IMO still useful, but in the future it will be just for A/C (electric A/C requires a huge amount of power which is difficult to supply), and the alternator, which hopefully will have evolved into a motor-generator unit. There's no reason why the alternator should be dead weight under acceleration when it can provide extra power.

[gumby79]

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr Agreed
With the widespread and continued development and proof of concept ni BLDC motors/ controllers. BLDC will replace every single crankshaft HP to include the cam most likely a form of linear actuators directly attached to the value no spring . How much more HP can be freed up by removing all that parasitic load ? much more than a 10HP BLDC ,or at least large enough to move the car. A direct drive covering the harmonic balancer. Also makes no more finger traps. This liner actuator idea could open all the valves for Engine Off Costing. The computer can run a downgrade algorithm to control speed.adding valve movement to increase resistance. This would solve the battery full run away problems, that I've experienced with my cousin's '14 Leaf. Or something like what we are developing as a power supply it has a HP limit of 1/3 of the waste heatas a turbocharger as a BLDC spinner who knows with the increased efficiency of direct drive Vs shoving air. Or use a BLDC strong enough to stop/stall the engine disapating the kinetic energy into a supercapacitor and a small bat. to top off the supercapacitor after long storage , instead of letting the energy be absorbed by static compression.
Ultimately the petrol engine has had a Hart attack and is dieing, poor fellow don't even know it yet. Maybe 15 years left as a pure petrol production model ,not accounting for E-85 /B-10 they are already re-engineered for now. And no form of electric motove force aka hybrid, across the board yet. Once we can make enough non-crankshaft electricity., then the sky is the limit on MPGs . 1000mpg is possible. But alas the future is to far away to see yet.
Gumby stay flexible.
PS keep the ideas coming we have 100,000RPM motors everywhere in the RC world. Dose any one know? If we can keep the turbocharger down to <100,000+10% ? With a 1)waste gate. 2)VGT(Verible Geometry Turbocharger )