Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-30-2016, 03:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 447

Valerie - '03 Honda Civic DX
Team Honda
90 day: 55.79 mpg (US)
Thanks: 277
Thanked 231 Times in 105 Posts
Turbo as a charger?

So after viewing the Mercedes F1 Split Turbo explanation video I've had an idea...

Why couldn't we use turbos to charge an electrical system similar to an alternator? Instead of have it belt driven, attach the alternator to the shaft of the turbine...?

Would this even be possible? Or would it generate enough electrical charge?

__________________

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 03-30-2016, 03:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
Not Doug
 
Xist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Show Low, AZ
Posts: 8,609

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 35.35 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 36.15 mpg (US)

Mom's grandmamobile - '06 Toyota Camry SE
Thanks: 5,771
Thanked 1,635 Times in 1,243 Posts
I think someone mentioned this idea recently and the answer is that turbos spin far faster than alternators, so much so that it would not work.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2016, 03:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 447

Valerie - '03 Honda Civic DX
Team Honda
90 day: 55.79 mpg (US)
Thanks: 277
Thanked 231 Times in 105 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
I think someone mentioned this idea recently and the answer is that turbos spin far faster than alternators, so much so that it would not work.
I'd be interested in figuring out a way around that...

Turbos spin at 80,000 - 200,000 rpm, right? And an alternator spins at about 1/50th that speed?

So wouldn't we just need some way of stepping down the speed of the input to the alternator?
__________________


Last edited by whatmaycome14; 03-30-2016 at 03:59 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2016, 04:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 8,061

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 124.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 183
Thanked 2,605 Times in 2,035 Posts
Those step down gear boxes are expensive and the ones I know of are only approved for 40,000 to 50,000 RPM. Most are only used for around half of that.

This system would be so expensive there wouldn't be any point.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to oil pan 4 For This Useful Post:
Xist (03-30-2016)
Old 03-30-2016, 07:33 PM   #5 (permalink)
EcoModding flying lizard
 
Daschicken's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 702

Cibbie - '88 Honda CBR 250R
Motorcycle
90 day: 54.64 mpg (US)

Rarity - '06 Honda Accord EX V6
Team Honda
90 day: 38.16 mpg (US)

Baby viff - '86 Honda VFR 400R
Motorcycle
90 day: 52 mpg (US)

Latios - '08 Suzuki SV650SF
Motorcycle
90 day: 73.9 mpg (US)
Thanks: 523
Thanked 241 Times in 163 Posts
How about turning the turbocharger into the generator/alternator. Make the magnets part of the turbine and have the windings inside the turbo?

But I have seen threads like this before, unless a major manufacturer gets involved I don't think this is going anywhere.
__________________
-Kaze o tatakaimasen-

Best trip in V6: 52.0
Best tank in V6: 46.0
Best tank in CBR: 61.3
Best tank in VFR: 62.5
Best tank in SV: 83.9

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
You can lead a fashion-conscious horse to unusual-looking water...

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2016, 07:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 7,433
Thanks: 0
Thanked 764 Times in 675 Posts
IIRC the electric power supply for modern jet aircraft is supplied from a similar setup.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2016, 08:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
Master Novice
 
elhigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SE USA - East Tennessee
Posts: 2,282

Josie - '87 Toyota Pickup
90 day: 28.6 mpg (US)

Felicia - '09 Toyota Prius Base
90 day: 48.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 403
Thanked 590 Times in 432 Posts
Eh, just mount the magnets directly to the shaft and pickup coils around them. Voltage would be sky-high but feed it through a transformer to jack the amps up and there you are.

I've fantasized about replacing the distro in my pickup with a racing-style magneto-distributor, which really would make the truck my go-to zombie apocalypse choice. Take out the ignition duties and replace all your lights with LEDs and the alternator doesn't have nearly as much to do.

Of course as I said, it's a fantasy.

[edit]
Oops, I see Daschicken (?) has beaten me to it.
__________________




Lead or follow. Either is fine.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2016, 08:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Silly-Con Valley
Posts: 1,417
Thanks: 173
Thanked 226 Times in 174 Posts
There are race cars that are doing this already.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_919_Hybrid

How Formula One's Amazing New Hybrid Turbo Engine Works

-soD
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2016, 09:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 7,433
Thanks: 0
Thanked 764 Times in 675 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by elhigh View Post
I've fantasized about replacing the distro in my pickup with a racing-style magneto-distributor, which really would make the truck my go-to zombie apocalypse choice.
I still consider a magneto the best setup for spark-ignition. No wonder they're still prevalent in piston-engined light aircraft and even in some motorcycles. BTW you might remember that some off-road motorcycles, even when fitted with EFI and some weak headlight, don't even have a battery and rely only in the electricity supplied by the magneto. Sure you wouldn't wanna get rid of the battery in your truck because of the starter, but anyway, a magneto is a reasonable option.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 03:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
gumby79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Butte, Montana
Posts: 691

little jona - '91 Dodge D 250 first gen cummins LE
Team Streamliner
90 day: 23.4 mpg (US)

Little Jona airo modded - '91 Dodge RAM 3/4 TON D 250 24 AUTO
Pickups
Team Cummins
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

The Salted Hound Jenny. - '87 Dodge Ram 50/D-50 5sp 4X4
90 day: 20.24 mpg (US)

Jona Allison aero - '91 Dodge Ram D-250 Le
90 day: 20.93 mpg (US)
Thanks: 199
Thanked 396 Times in 257 Posts
Plausible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
I think someone mentioned this idea recently and the answer is that turbos spin far faster than alternators, so much so that it would not work.
Not true any more.
Brushless DC Motors, Servo Motors, DC Motors, Permenant Magnet AC Motors, AC Servo Motors, Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motors, High Speed Motors, Custom Motors, Gearheads, Encoders, Motion Control, Slotless Motors, Sensorless, Ironless Motors, Vacuu
has this

http://www.koford.com/Generators.pdf[/COLOR]
This is rated up to 400,000 rpm

If you use a waste gate housing you can regulat the shaft Speed. Or even better a VGT (Verible Geometry Turbine )

"Oil pan 4 Those step down gear boxes are expensive and the ones I know of are only approved for 40,000 to 50,000 RPM. Most are only used for around half of that.

This system would be so expensive there wouldn't be any point."

With the gen set parts in the link, the need for a gear box removed ,is this posable?
As for expensive all R&D is. The key is to use off the shelf parts.

My thoughts add 2nd turbocharger ,my rig already has1. Maby a vgt turbo link . Replace the impeller (as it is the thrust bearing pre load) with a spacer and direct cupple the BLDC400, 000 rpm motor/gen to the shaft.
The reason for wanting this not to be in my Intake sys., is simple. Any failure bits and pices would go through the engine, resulting in $1000s of damage. Develop and prove the sys. before putting it on the primary turbo. Also on the primary it would increase lag. And the rule of 1/3. You can recover 1/3 of the waste energy per stage. Eg 160hp into the turbo 120hp bown the pipe and 40hp at the shaft
Gumby stay flexible.

__________________
1st gen cummins 91.5 dodge d250 ,HX35W/12
ehxsost manafulld wrap, Aero Tonto
best tank: distance 649gps mi 24.04 mpg 27.011usg
Best mpg : 29.3mpg 97mi 3.311usg 7/27/16


Former
'83 GMC S-15 Jimmy 2door 2wd O/D auto 3.73R&P
'79 Chevy K20 4X4 350ci 400hp msd custom th400 /np205. 7.5-new 14mpg modded befor modding was a thing
87' Hyundai Excel
83 ranger w/87 2.9 L FI2wd auto 18mpg on the floor
04 Mitsubishi Gallant 2.4L auto 26mpg
06 Subaru Forrester XT(WRX PACKAGE) MT AWD Turbocharged 18 plying dirty best of 26mpg@70mph
95Chevy Blazer 4x4 auto 14-18mpg
04 Chevy Blazer 4x4 auto 16-22mpg


  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com