Ultimate MK4 TDI build for MPG

[PremierSprinter]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

That's an interesting project. Regarding engine pre-heating, even if your cars stay inside at night during winter, some electric coolant heater and a heating pad at the oil sump can actually be very helpful regarding efficiency since it would lead the engine to its optimum temperature sooner. You might even take a look at wrapping the sump externally with some insulation. BTW do you remember some big rig engines such as the Detroit Diesel Series 60 had composite sumps and some Caterpillar engines even have composite valve covers?

I understand what you are saying. Are these components meant to stay on or get switch on from a timer via 110v wall outlet or do they come on when you start the car to help heat it? I briefly touched up on it in my original post, but I intend to coil tubing around the downpipe to flow coolant through. The main purpose of this was to aid in warm-up and to help maintain temperature. My first TDI had the EGR cooler deleted and I couldn't get up to temperature before making it to work. Even with heated R32 seats (which feel like being cuddled as a child by your mother), it was still a miserable experience in the winter. I believe that the coiled down pipe will also increase exhaust gas density exiting the turbo which would have a slight scavenging effect, even if it is only worth 1/100th of an MPG.

[deejaaa]

Originally Posted by PremierSprinter

.(1)....I intend to coil tubing around the downpipe to flow coolant through. The main purpose of this was to aid in warm-up and to help maintain temperature........
(2)VNT2256 ........VNT15

(1)how do you intend to tie the coil to the system? will it be controlled, such as in summer, to disconnect when not needed?
(2)is this a popular swap?

[PremierSprinter]

Originally Posted by deejaaa

(1)how do you intend to tie the coil to the system? will it be controlled, such as in summer, to disconnect when not needed?
(2)is this a popular swap?

I don't know that it would be beneficial to ever shut it off, being that the cooling system capacity is so great in these cars. The idea was to plumb it in place of the EGR cooler as this is being deleted. The EGR cooler helps to warm up the engine faster and when deleted, the engines struggle to warm up.

Not a whole lot of people are putting this exact turbo on their TDIs. Most are running off-the-shelf turbos like the hybrids, I believe that it isn't used often because of the extra lag. I'm using it for the cooler charged air temperatures which will put less strain on the air-water intercooler which I'm integrating into a custom intake manifold for very short charge pipes. It will also help to keep EGTs down while towing. I don't mind the lag.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by PremierSprinter

I understand what you are saying. Are these components meant to stay on or get switch on from a timer via 110v wall outlet or do they come on when you start the car to help heat it?

They're not meant to be plugged in a wall outlet, just run at the battery like a conventional glowplug.

I briefly touched up on it in my original post, but I intend to coil tubing around the downpipe to flow coolant through. The main purpose of this was to aid in warm-up and to help maintain temperature. My first TDI had the EGR cooler deleted and I couldn't get up to temperature before making it to work.

Nothing might prevent you to use both devices.

[PremierSprinter]

I'm going to looks further in to them. At this point, I'm not sure that it is something that I am going to do, though I wouldn't mind making it something which operated in conjunction with a block heater. I don't want to load the electrical system any more than I already am as I want to downsize the pulleys.

I finally found some good information on MK5 electromechanical steering:
http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_317.pdf

It looks like the electrical aspect is going to be nightmarish and most won't be interested in following so I am going to swap the whole aluminum subframe over. The frame rails are spaced the same between the two cars at 35" but the front mounts are not as the MK4 mounts extend more inward. I should be able to cut the spot welds and transfer the mk5 mounts to the mk4 with relative ease.

The interior is coming along rather nicely. The chassis harness is almost out. I'm going to leave in all of the components for ESP and add it to my harness. I won't be able to talk with it via vagcom through the IMMO2 cluster but at least the switch will function. Hopefull it isn't an automatic ABS light. If there is, I'll probably gut it from the cluster.

[PremierSprinter]

The engine bay is also stripped, I forgot to mention. I have to go to NY in a couple hours but will be back late Sunday night and should be able to get more done.

[deejaaa]

Originally Posted by PremierSprinter

...I finally found some good information on MK5 electromechanical steering:
http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_317.pdf.....

very interesting.
swap the entire column because the "Steering column switch with steering angle sender G85" is needed? (The steering gear consists of a steering moment sender, a torsion bar, a steering and drive pinion, a worm gear and an electric motor with control unit. The core of the electro-mechanical power steering is a steering rack with two teeth engaged in the steering gear.)
still reading so I will post notes for my reference.

The components that assist steering are located on, and operate directly at, the steering gear.

The saving in energy over 100 kilometres is up to 0.2 litres.
(based on this, after calculations, savings of 7.9 gallons per every 930 miles(what I drive per tank), equals to, at 2.79/gallon, saving $22.00 and 435 extra miles/tank. tank avg 930 miles could be 1365 miles. if conversion cost $1,000.00, around 1 1/2 year break even.)

seems to be a lot of hidden components:
System overview
G28 Engine speed sender(... is of the Hall sender type. It is attached inside the crankshaft sealing flange housing.)
J104 ABS control unit(The signal for the road speed is supplied by the ABS control unit.)
G44 - G47Speed sensor (road speed signal)
J248 Diesel direct injection system control unit
J533 Diagnosis interface for data bus
J527 Steering column electronics control unit
J285 Control unit with display unit in dash panel insert Terminal 15
CAN drive
K161 Warning lamp
G85 Steering angle sender (... found behind the return spring with airbag slip ring. It is located on the steering column between steering column switch and steering wheel.)
J500 Power steering control unit
G269 Steering moment sender
V187 Electro-mechanical power steering motor(Effects of failure: An advantage of the asynchronous motor is that the motor can be moved by the steering gear even in a state of no voltage. This means that, in the event of failure of the motor and thereby loss of power steering assistance, the steering can still be operated by applying a slightly greater amount of force. Even in the event of a short circuit, the motor will not become blocked. Faults are indicated by warning lamp K161 lighting up red.
this is interesting"
The electric motor with control unit and steering assistance sensors can be found on the second pinion. This design means that there is a mechanical
connection between the steering wheel and steering rack. In this way, the vehicle can still be steered mechanically in the event of failure of the servo motor.
In the event of failure of the steering moment sender,........ a fault is detected, the power steering assistance is shut down. This shut down is a soft and gradual process, rather than sudden. To achieve a soft and gradual shutdown, a substitute steering force signal is calculated in the control unit from the steering and rotor angle of the electric motor.Faults are indicated by warning lamp K161.
wonder how the steering is with power off?

[PremierSprinter]

My train of thoughts after reading the PDF is that the rack would be functional by hooking up the 80A power and ground wires and then connecting terminal 15. The computer should go in to defaults. Unfortunately, it is unknown how it would react. The rack gives less and less assist the faster you go and it gives more assist the faster you are turning the wheel, which accounts for the needs for VSS input as well as steering angle. I would like to believe that the vehicle speed is the most important as it would scale down rack sensitivity at higher speeds, though the steering angle sensor would be much easier to add. By using the MK5 cluster, you should be able to wire just power to the column module and the sensor would work. Stalk functions would have to be spliced in to the MK4 wiring which may be a bit of a pain. The other option would be to fix just the steering angle sensor assembly somewhere else on the column and hide the MK5 steering column module somewhere inside of the dash, keeping all MK4 column components. This might be a better option if I decide to swap in the MK4 MK60 ESP system as it too has a steering angle sensor.

The more important sensor (in my opinion) would be the VSS. Unfortunately, it gets the signal from the ABS module over the CAN and the ABS module gets the signal from the wheels speed sensors on the hubs. I'm not sure if the MK4 and MK5 are using similar ring configurations. If they are, I could probably piggy-back one wheels speed sensor and again wire the module with just the minimum wires needed to turn on and generate CAN signals. Creating a small network between the ABS module, steering column module and steering rack would in theory give complete OEM function.

The EASIEST and possibly most efficient method would be to put the terminal 15 wire to the rack on a switch and only turn on power assist when you need it. It's so simple that it is almost stupid not to do it this way… though it would be really cool to make it all function like OEM. If I did this, it would also give me the ability to experiment with the rack in its default settings, missing CAN signals to see how safe it is at highway speeds and to see where in the range of sensitivity it defaults.

[PremierSprinter]

Steel subframe is out. I took a few more measurements and it looks like the center hole for the ball joints from the MK4 and MK5 are within an eighth of an inch apart; however, the outer holes are not spaced the same. I'm going to have to drill new holes in the control arms if the MK5 balljoints won't fit into the MK4 knuckles.

[PremierSprinter]

The MK5 subframe is nowhere near a direct swap. The front mounts are too tall and too far in and the rear mounts are a completely different layout. The bodies of both cars are very similar with the frame rail spacing nearly identical and the floor pans very similar as well. The big difference is the mounts which are spot welded to the body. By removing the mounting locations for the subframe from the MK4 and welding in the mounts from the MK5, I will definitely be able to make this work. I'm going to use chassis reference points and string to center it all before I tac the mounts in place and then test fit before welding.

Unfortunately, I had to quit early because my spot weld cuter was too dull to finish the job. I'll get new heads and continue soon.