The Underbody (flat belly pan is suboptimal - explanation & solutions offered)

[Xist]

Originally Posted by mcrews

wow.....thank goodness you don't bring you attitude with you.....

build something....show us some aba testing.......but take your 'eureka moment' somewhere else.

Ah, yes, there was an original topic, wasn't there?

[MTrenk]

mcrews, I'd be happy to build something if someone sponsored me. I don't even own a car right now lol. But, I'm confident I could probably build a 60mpg car for under 5000, assuming a starting car price of around 3-4K. Forgive me of my 'attitude', I just try to encourage people to think for themselves.

mwebb you're totally right. The more you learn, the more you learn how much you don't know.

freebeard, Just yesterday I went to my college's surplus warehouse and got a scanner for free, so I should have my designs up here soon.

Everyone else... quit trying to question my credibility. I post info on here off of what I myself have gathered from reading, thinking, and learning. If for some reason you think I have to be old, or have finished my education, or have some fancy job to know what I'm talking about, then ignore me by all means. I would hope that you read what I write and decide for yourself based on evidence and your own thoughts whether to believe it or not. That's how rational people make decisions. Yeah, I'm young, but who cares? I'm educated enough to call BS on Reynolds numbers magically making the golf ball effect useless on big stuff versus little stuff. You're still going to generate a low pressure area that will keep a turbulent boundary layer attached over a greater distance of surface.

I came to this forum to try to teach, but most people seem to have no interest in learning. I've learned all sorts of stuff from this forum I didn't know before, and I want to add in the stuff that I see is wrong/missing. Take my word for it or not.

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by MTrenk

You people need to quit it with this Hucho talk, because a lot of the conclusions you guys have written down on these forums aren't really worth anything, IMO.

Feel free to start a new thread on the next topic needing attention.

[mcrews]

Originally Posted by Xist

"
Do you know what would be awesome? An MPG contest that included crash testing!

"Congratulations, you have conditionally won. Now for the head-on collision."

That is a very neat idea!

[mcrews]

Originally Posted by MTrenk

mcrews, I'd be happy to build something if someone sponsored me. I don't even own a car right now lol. But, I'm confident I could probably build a 60mpg car for under 5000, assuming a starting car price of around 3-4K. Forgive me of my 'attitude', I just try to encourage people to think for themselves.

mwebb you're totally right. The more you learn, the more you learn how much you don't know.

freebeard, Just yesterday I went to my college's surplus warehouse and got a scanner for free, so I should have my designs up here soon.

Everyone else... quit trying to question my credibility. .

Really! and why? Credibility is`earned, not demanded....you might just not be old enough to realize that.

Originally Posted by MTrenk

I post info on here off of what I myself have gathered from reading, thinking, and learning. If for some reason you think I have to be old, or have finished my education, or have some fancy job to know what I'm talking about, then ignore me by all means. I would hope that you read what I write and decide for yourself based on evidence and your own thoughts whether to believe it or not. That's how rational people make decisions..

rational people listen to evidence presented by credible sources. (see above on how to be credible) come on, you talk like my best freind's 15yr old daughter. Claiming your smarter than us even though you are young.

Originally Posted by MTrenk

Yeah, I'm young, but who cares? I'm educated enough to call BS on Reynolds numbers magically making the golf ball effect useless on big stuff versus little stuff. You're still going to generate a low pressure area that will keep a turbulent boundary layer attached over a greater distance of surface.

I came to this forum to try to teach, but most people seem to have no interest in learning..

that is really an arogant statement. Frankly, why you came here matters little. But the fact that you thought you were going to 'school us' is hilarious.
This is a forum....not a class room. Each person is indepedent and not your pupil. I you want to teach, write a ce class or teach at a communitee college. (but i already know the answer.....you cant....your too young and inexperienced.)

Originally Posted by MTrenk

I've learned all sorts of stuff from this forum I didn't know before, and I want to add in the stuff that I see is wrong/missing. Take my word for it or not.

[MetroMPG]

Chill, please.

[freebeard]

freebeard, Just yesterday I went to my college's surplus warehouse and got a scanner for free, so I should have my designs up here soon.

Cool.

Everyone else...

**** everybody else. Put 'em on Ignore. Take a look at their spelling and punctuation. I mean, really!

I may be drawing Social Security, but I still remember standing in the back yard when I was 14, looking at the sunset, and thinking that the adults around me were dumber than a bag of hammers. I promised myself I would never forget.

[UltArc]

I sincerely mean this with only positive intentions. Really, please take my words for meaning without any negative tone, only constructive feedback.

Mt, I appreciate your view point, and your input. But it seems common amongst most people that they don't like being told things. You are clearly smart, and clearly have a good idea at what you are talking about. But this is a community that is constructive and helpful, and wants more along the lines of positive. No one likes being "taught" something. As in, they are dumb, and don't know- no matter the positive ideas behind it.

No matter how much worldy experience one has, wisdom, age, so on, it is offensive when someone new comes in and switches the game up. Credibility is earned. You do seem credible, but this is just a chat. We have no real designs, tests, or anything like that. So in a peer discussion, someone teaching can appear arrogant.

Comments like quit trying to argue usually don't help arguments. We are not here to be taught by you. I loved this thread, because it showed me a deeper aspect to my next project I had not fathomed. But certain words can give off more of a dominant, controlling, arrogant feel to it.

Honestly, I totally agree with Mcrews. But, I find your information interesting, and enjoy examining it. I hope you do continue to post, block out haters, so on and so forth, but do please note that in a form of communication that SOLELY uses words, letters, punctuation, and text editing, the specific wording, letters, so on, can have a deeper meaning than it appears.

On a less conflict resoluting note, just shooting the poop, I thought this whole thread started out very rude and arrogant. Although I have not been here long, it seemed like an insult to the current underbody designs. NOT that you meant this, but it was like the designs were a failure and worthless. I was offended. But as the thread continued, it became clear (to me) you have positive intentions, and are just expressing an idea to optimize our systems. Also, please note we are for the most part using election signs and doing home builds, no fancy equipment or tools, just elbow grease and ingeniuity.

[jime57]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Chill, please.

By all means -PLEASE. Internet shouting matches never get resolved. They just spin out of control, with parties seeking the last word. In the meantime time is wasted, moods soured and a good thread diluted. Contending parties will not convince the other so it is a waste of time. Also, don't be disrespectful - that is the way it starts!

[jime57]

Originally Posted by MTrenk

Tried to answer posts bottom to top!

I'm not sure how these two picture snuck in but they are wonderful examples of what Hucho concluded, from wind tunnel testing, to be the very best way to exit cooling air. The disadvantage is that the warm air is now on top of the hood, with easy access to the climate control intake at the base of the windshield. Hucho concluded that this arrangement worked well for race cars, but not so well for other applications. Second best option was exit through the front wheelwells.