On the verge of Insight ownership! UPDATE: bought it - 2004 CVT

[SloMo6Oh]

Bought it yesterday for $2K after verifying (via VIN) the IMA batt was still covered! Thanks to all of you for supplying the info.
Special thanks to "Old Mech" specifically for pointing out the extended warranty on the IMA batt!
Before I pulled the trigger I had a buddy check the CARFAX, which was great - all maintenance done at Honda and no salvage title.
Also, the VIN checks out at the dealership - it's covered!

*end of update
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I think I've finally found a FrankenInsight I can work with but I'd like to hear what you guys think. It's a 2004 CVT with 126K, moderately damaged front bumper, an engine guard panel underneath that's hanging down, cracked windshield, a few small dents on the hood, small dent to the roof, check engine light on, and battery light on.
Although I think I'd rather have a manual tranny, I drove this one. Seems to drive pretty darn well just on the engine alone.
Started at $4K. Currently at $2,500.
All "insights" welcome!

[Ryland]

the CVT drops the mileage down to the low to mid 50's and I suspect it will be even lower with a bad battery pack.
Seems like a perfect car to convert to all electric or to offer $2,000 for it and hope that you can revive the battery pack.

[SloMo6Oh]

Thanks for the reply! I've been a lurker for a while. I'm excited to potentially be in thegame for real next week!
I'd prefer a 5-spd but can't find any priced low enough. I wonder if I can make the conversion from CVT to 5spd? Also, I think I've read the Insights w/ manual tranny have a lean burn feature (?)

[MetroMPG]

I take it you've seen this thread:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ems-18892.html

I'd suggest waiting for a 5-speed, personally. Lean burn is where the magic happens with these cars.

Hopefully a CVT owner pops in with words of wisdom.

[sheepdog 44]

Buy a manual!!!!!

I can get 60-62mpg tank averages in the summer with the battery physically removed. That's without much effort over hilly terrain at speeds up to 55mph. At 62mph highway speed expect at least 55-58mpg without a battery, around 50mpg if your gonna do a steady 75mph (which i've never done). Those numbers are great, but you could be getting 75mpg+. You could crack 100mpg segments if that sort of thing at all interests you.

On the other hand.... For $2,500 can you buy a Geo Metro or Crx HF or Civic VX that gets 50mpg and has NO rust? Is aluminum, under 2,000lbs, and has exceptional aerodynamics? You can't! You can run the cvt indefinately without a battery really well. Also you're not going to save a whole lot of money on gas vs a manual Insight.

If you can live with those things, then get it.

I can't recall the battery warranty, but i know it's 10 years. Don't know the mileage, but if it can qualify for a factory replacement that is a definate bonus to solve half your issues.

The biggest thing to consider is in what shape that Insight is in. You will not save money buying a high mpg car if you have to do some serious repairs in the near future. Codes, brakes, tires etc. If you're gonna get it, try to pay the least you can.

[SloMo6Oh]

I'm confused - won't I get lean burn with a CVT?
Is it possible/worth converting to manual?

[Ryland]

pretty sure only the 5 speed had lean burn, different ECU as well, the ECU on the insight with a CVT is different, with a goal of clean exhaust over better mileage, so swapping in a 5 speed transmission is going to be hard and after fixing the battery pack you'll wonder why you didn't just spend the extra money and get rid of the gas engine all together.

[user removed]

As long as the car does not have a salvage title the battery warranty is 10 years and over 150k miles. I think it went to 165k when there was a mileage discrepancy suit settled in California. No other warranties will be in effect after 8 years and or 80k miles.

My 01 CVT Insight needed 7k in warranty repairs from 35k to 62 k miles. The guts of the primary cat came loose, the 02 sensor went bad, and the hybrid battery and BCM were replaced. Everything except the 02 sensor was replaced under warranty.

With everything working properly I averaged 68 MPG for over 25k miles, and on one road trip averaging 55 MPH on the old US routes in Virginia I averaged 70.2 MPG. I lost $2500 in depreciation over 30k miles. I liked the car but the amount of money in warranty repairs was almost what the car was worth when I sold it.

From what I understand and have read here, if you are good at wrenching, patient, and resourceful then the car might be a good deal for you, especially if you run the serial number with a Honda dealership and they tell you the battery is still under warranty, but they will do nothing for you now if there is a bad cat or 02 sensor, those warranties have expired.

The only time mine got 52 MPG was in a torrential rainstorm coming back to my home on I64 west of Richmond. My wife drove it when her Rogue was being repaired (collision) and got 56 MPG.

For what I paid for that Insight with 35k miles, I bought my 2011 Fiesta with 3770 miles. So far I am averaging 45 MPG in the Fiesta versus 68 in the Insight, but I ride a bike that gets close to 90 average in the summer and cost less than the depreciation on the Insight.

Should you buy an 04 CVT for $2500. I would consider it if the battery warranty was still good. I would also get any other codes that were engine related and try to figure out what it would cost to get them corrected. If you want trouble free operation, all of the older vehicles suggested as alternatives are reaching the point where if you are wrench friendly they may work for you but if not then they have reached the point in life expectancy where things all start to fall apart and the cumulative cost can get greater than the benefit.

regards
Mech

[SloMo6Oh]

Thanks Mech! (See my updated post)

[user removed]

For 2K you did well. The battery warranty claim is close to 3 grand alone. I would get the battery work done, which might also kill the check engine light. After that if the check engine light is still on then figure out what you need to do to get it fixed.

With the battery pack working, you can accelerate at about 3k RPM and get good mileage. If there are slight grades where you live, get a feel for the tactic of very slight acceleration on gradual uphill grades then coasting (in gear) on the downgrade with very slight deceleration. I am talking like 30 seconds to gain or lose 5 MPH.

I found that using this tactic I could get 80-90 MPG when everything was warm.

Don't even think about a 5 speed conversion. The number of parts you would have to replace is astronomical. If I could manage 68 MPG average in mine then you should be able to come close to that.

You may need to clean the EGR passageways which is not a very difficult job.

regards
Mech