Vetter streamliner body kit

[renault_megane_dci]

A nice FF setup based on a Burgman seem to call to sit the driver in the area above the cylinder head.
This way no need for extended handlebars.

That being said, a Burgman 650 seems like the worst candidate for FE in my book.
Too much capacity and the CVT playing the smart ass ....

[Michael Moore]

Here are some photos of Peter Fouché's Tmax with Hossack-type FFE to give you a better idea of how the front end works:

Peter Fouché's T-max based project | FF Web

The AN400 seems a better starting place for a mileage project than the 650 but I'm well aware that sometimes projects start with what you already have in the garage. Some projects do remind me of the old story about someone being asked for directions and replying "if I were you I wouldn't start from here".



There is a shortage of powertrains that work well with a low seat and an FF riding position that would make Vetter-type aeros (to try and stay on the thread topic a bit) possible. The scooters have odd-sized (to me) wheels/tires and the rear drive on them makes it very difficult to change wheels. The new Honda 700 twin is much closer but still not ideal, and while it gets good mileage the engine capacity is still overly large for a single rider aiming at higher mileage. It is also new enough that used examples are still pretty high on the price.

cheers,
Michael

[PeterS]

Originally Posted by Michael Moore

My comment about power/acceleration was in re to Peter's post about the CT/Lifan engines. 7hp-10hp is sketchy if you are wanting a vehicle that can do 80mph or more. Not that it can't obtain that speed (or even higher) but it would be impractical to spend the time getting there.

The BuddFab 50cc streamliner went 140+ at Bonneville with significantly more than 7hp from a tuned 2T engine (my guess is 15-20hp based on what 50cc GP bikes used to do). But watch the video for an idea of how long it took to get to that top speed

For the street you'd have much lower gearing which would help, but very low hp strikes me as impractical for use with high gearing (and possibly high weight on a streamliner) on the street. Doing a mileage competition on a closed course would be an entirely different matter from mixing it up with the typical low-skill car driver.

The 650 Burger makes much more sense for a heavily modified/streamlined street special as the form factor on the powertrain works better for a low frontal area vehicle. But the Burger seems to be pretty portly and I suspect that a lot of that is in the powertrain and will be difficult to remove.

I had a photoshop sketch of a bare 650 with a Hossack FFE that showed how much lower the nose could be but I haven't found it. Maybe I'll whip one up and post it as an example.

Lightness is a worthy goal as it reduces the amount of power you need before you have further reductions from aeros. But for most of us the weight of the rider is much harder to reduce! A minimum combined weight of 350-400 lbf is probably realistic if you start with a small/light bike, but the 250 Kawa/Hondas are starting out in the 325-350 range without rider.

I don't have any running street bikes at this time (the curse of everything being a project) so I won't be able to go riding with you. Here at the beach it has been at best about 60F and foggy all week long -- very much typical summer weather.

I'd be happy to offer you advice on design and fab, but liability concerns make doing welding on critical structure on other people's projects out of the question.

cheers,
Michael

I take your point about the extremely slow acceleration with low hp but if the top speed was geared to say 70mph and most riding done at 55 it could be acceptable. In fact it would pretty closely duplicate the performance of my 2.8 litre Toyota diesel ute ( pickup). About 70mph top speed and not acceleration worth mentioning but a real workhorse.

[renault_megane_dci]

Originally Posted by Michael Moore

Here are some photos of Peter Fouché's Tmax with Hossack-type FFE to give you a better idea of how the front end works:

Peter Fouché's T-max based project | FF Web

The AN400 seems a better starting place for a mileage project than the 650 but I'm well aware that sometimes projects start with what you already have in the garage. Some projects do remind me of the old story about someone being asked for directions and replying "if I were you I wouldn't start from here".



There is a shortage of powertrains that work well with a low seat and an FF riding position that would make Vetter-type aeros (to try and stay on the thread topic a bit) possible. The scooters have odd-sized (to me) wheels/tires and the rear drive on them makes it very difficult to change wheels. The new Honda 700 twin is much closer but still not ideal, and while it gets good mileage the engine capacity is still overly large for a single rider aiming at higher mileage. It is also new enough that used examples are still pretty high on the price.

cheers,
Michael

I apologise that I sounded pedantic or whatever.
Just my personnal experience that switching from a stock 250 Helix to a stock 250 GN rewarded me with a 10% improvement from taller wheels and more efficient driveline and despite worst aero.

[Michael Moore]

I had no problem with what you said or how you said it. If a soapbox falls to hand it is easy for me to climb on top of it and go into lecture mode so I can't point fingers at someone else for being pedantic.

Scooters are an answer to a question, but generally it isn't a question I would ask. For the things that interest me scooters' design elements are often bugs instead of features. But that frees up a scooter for someone else who finds those elements to be features.

cheers,
Michael

[hyper-miler]

I test rode it last weekend. First of all the Sonora-Yosemite Loop is absolutely beautiful at this time of year. I highly recommend it for all you who live on the west coast. Cold enough right now to keep the mosquitoes at bay.
I was able to go up, down dirt roads without a hitch.


I have decided to seal the rider compartment with roll down windows on both sides in case I get into a bind with the side-winds. The amount of interest I received astounded me. I thank all of you who showed your admiration and encourage you to post any videos you have on here.

Hetch Hetchy reservoir

[renault_megane_dci]

Was this trip in your fuelly log ?

[hyper-miler]

Originally Posted by renault_megane_dci

Was this trip in your fuelly log ?

Yes it is comprised in the last few fill ups.
Here are a few more pictures to encourage all of you to get outside.
The forest surrounding Hetch Hetchy got burned up in last years' fire.

[renault_megane_dci]

And when was the tail fitted ?
Because I can't really seem to find a trend of improvement.

What's the usual % of city driving you do ?

[hyper-miler]

Originally Posted by renault_megane_dci

And when was the tail fitted ?
Because I can't really seem to find a trend of improvement.

What's the usual % of city driving you do ?

Tail was fitted late last month (May). I don't drive much within the city, so less than 10%. Mostly open road (hwys). Lot of space here on the West Coast.





Does anyone know what this is? Its on top of the dam.