Vetter streamliner body kit

[PeterS]

Or Ironside's FF Honda 90, the plan I'm going to follow.http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...0-a-27945.html

[hyper-miler]

Originally Posted by euromodder

That'd either screw up the angle on the streamline aft of the rider - or it'd give you a massive barn-door tail that'd flop you over in a stiff sidewind.


Enter the recumbent motorcycle like the one Allert Jacobs built
214 mpg with DIY aerodynamic fairings on a Honda 125cc motorbike

Or Wolfgang Bauer's EvoMoto
Home

Both are ecomodder members, BTW.

Albert built one with a very low seat height which I am also striving towards. My next step will be reducing the seat height which is will be a very large step towards removing the side air "problem".

The easiest most comfortable way is to add a car seat. (pic below)


Peter: I admire the low seat height in the Honda 90. Might be a side project if I can find one in good condition. Or might be a better idea to take a recumbent bike, add a motor, and fully enclose it. Unfortunately not fast enough (65mph) to use on the hwy.

[PeterS]

The calculator at the top of the page gives a top speed of between 70 and 75 mph for Ironside's bike with a cd of .4 and a frontal area of 5.5 squ feet using 6.5 hp. Engines of up to 15 hp ( Lifane brand) are available in the horizontal cylinder configuration that will fit this frame. The standard machine has 7.5 hp for the CT110.

10 hp would give 80 mph, more speed than I would care to use.

[Michael Moore]

It looks like you'll have quite a stretch to the bars from the car seat. You may want a secondary steering head to move the bars closer to the rider. But moving the seat forward to reduce the rearward weight bias would probably be a good idea.

A Hossack FFE (funny front end) would let the nose be much lower with a shallower slope. But that is not something many people would be able to construct.

I think for modern day-to-day traffic it is better to focus on acceleration and not top end. Very low HP may allow a high top speed with good aeros but if it takes all day to get there you are probably going to have to watch that someone doesn't barge you for holding up their forward progress (even if it is just to the next stop light). Reasonable HP with low weight and good aeros is probably going to make for a more practical vehicle.

cheers,
Michael

[hyper-miler]

Originally Posted by Michael Moore

It looks like you'll have quite a stretch to the bars from the car seat. You may want a secondary steering head to move the bars closer to the rider. But moving the seat forward to reduce the rearward weight bias would probably be a good idea.

A Hossack FFE (funny front end) would let the nose be much lower with a shallower slope. But that is not something many people would be able to construct.

I think for modern day-to-day traffic it is better to focus on acceleration and not top end. Very low HP may allow a high top speed with good aeros but if it takes all day to get there you are probably going to have to watch that someone doesn't barge you for holding up their forward progress (even if it is just to the next stop light). Reasonable HP with low weight and good aeros is probably going to make for a more practical vehicle.

cheers,
Michael

Hi Micheal,
Ideally I would extend the front of the bike by losing the shocks, and move the front wheel up by 2 feet using car shocks.
Acceleration won't be an issue as the beast has 650cc with power mode if need be. Your concern is justified since you are used to harrowing traffic in SF.

Do you want to ride this weekend?
Supposed to be warm... upper 90s-100s. PM me.
Do you have wielding experience that you can lend to make the front end?

[hyper-miler]

Taken from adv. Link below.
mod recumbent Helix - ADVrider

[Michael Moore]

My comment about power/acceleration was in re to Peter's post about the CT/Lifan engines. 7hp-10hp is sketchy if you are wanting a vehicle that can do 80mph or more. Not that it can't obtain that speed (or even higher) but it would be impractical to spend the time getting there.

The BuddFab 50cc streamliner went 140+ at Bonneville with significantly more than 7hp from a tuned 2T engine (my guess is 15-20hp based on what 50cc GP bikes used to do). But watch the video for an idea of how long it took to get to that top speed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=818CCsQRObM

For the street you'd have much lower gearing which would help, but very low hp strikes me as impractical for use with high gearing (and possibly high weight on a streamliner) on the street. Doing a mileage competition on a closed course would be an entirely different matter from mixing it up with the typical low-skill car driver.

The 650 Burger makes much more sense for a heavily modified/streamlined street special as the form factor on the powertrain works better for a low frontal area vehicle. But the Burger seems to be pretty portly and I suspect that a lot of that is in the powertrain and will be difficult to remove.

I had a photoshop sketch of a bare 650 with a Hossack FFE that showed how much lower the nose could be but I haven't found it. Maybe I'll whip one up and post it as an example.

Lightness is a worthy goal as it reduces the amount of power you need before you have further reductions from aeros. But for most of us the weight of the rider is much harder to reduce! A minimum combined weight of 350-400 lbf is probably realistic if you start with a small/light bike, but the 250 Kawa/Hondas are starting out in the 325-350 range without rider.

I don't have any running street bikes at this time (the curse of everything being a project) so I won't be able to go riding with you. Here at the beach it has been at best about 60F and foggy all week long -- very much typical summer weather.

I'd be happy to offer you advice on design and fab, but liability concerns make doing welding on critical structure on other people's projects out of the question.

cheers,
Michael

[Michael Moore]

Magenta is the a-arms and upright, green is the superstructure to mount the a-arms, yellow is the new fuel tank position (surrounding the air box) and blue is what you could cut the rest of the scooter down to for lowering the rider. You'd need a steering head for the bars and steering links to the upright and probably some structure for more forward foot pegs

It looks like a Burger 650 is about 600 lbf dry, which seems like at least 200 lbf more than it needs to be, especially for a single rider.

I thought about getting an AN650 to do something like that but the small tires, high wait and the general high price put me off.

Here's a concept around an SV650 with no rear cylinder and Hossack FFE. The rider is probably a bit low for good chain clearance at full bump. The SV has full-sized 17" wheels vs the smaller wheels on the AN650:



You can see how the nose can be a lot lower if you eliminate the tall teleforks and lower the rider.

cheers,
Michael

[hyper-miler]

Originally Posted by Michael Moore

My comment about power/acceleration was in re to Peter's post about the CT/Lifan engines. 7hp-10hp is sketchy if you are wanting a vehicle that can do 80mph or more. Not that it can't obtain that speed (or even higher) but it would be impractical to spend the time getting there.

The BuddFab 50cc streamliner went 140+ at Bonneville with significantly more than 7hp from a tuned 2T engine (my guess is 15-20hp based on what 50cc GP bikes used to do). But watch the video for an idea of how long it took to get to that top speed

For the street you'd have much lower gearing which would help, but very low hp strikes me as impractical for use with high gearing (and possibly high weight on a streamliner) on the street. Doing a mileage competition on a closed course would be an entirely different matter from mixing it up with the typical low-skill car driver.

The 650 Burger makes much more sense for a heavily modified/streamlined street special as the form factor on the powertrain works better for a low frontal area vehicle. But the Burger seems to be pretty portly and I suspect that a lot of that is in the powertrain and will be difficult to remove.

I had a photoshop sketch of a bare 650 with a Hossack FFE that showed how much lower the nose could be but I haven't found it. Maybe I'll whip one up and post it as an example.

Lightness is a worthy goal as it reduces the amount of power you need before you have further reductions from aeros. But for most of us the weight of the rider is much harder to reduce! A minimum combined weight of 350-400 lbf is probably realistic if you start with a small/light bike, but the 250 Kawa/Hondas are starting out in the 325-350 range without rider.

I don't have any running street bikes at this time (the curse of everything being a project) so I won't be able to go riding with you. Here at the beach it has been at best about 60F and foggy all week long -- very much typical summer weather.

I'd be happy to offer you advice on design and fab, but liability concerns make doing welding on critical structure on other people's projects out of the question.

cheers,
Michael

I don't understand how the Hossack FFE are going to work? Extending the handlebars like in the pic above will do the trick as long as the plastic is cut down so the frontal view isn't obstructed.

Not having a street ready bike is a bummer, we are supposed to have some good weather this weekend w/a spare the air day (smart PGE) day Monday.

Weight isn't a problem as my insight weighs 3x as much and gets the same gas mileage w/o the hybrid f(x)'s. The bigger issue is the clutch but that can be sidestepped by manually shifting it... the new 2013+ models have a more efficient clutch (~15%) real mpg gains will come by fully enclosing it.

After looking at the Burgy frame the car seat mod must have required him to cut the seat support steel out? I will resort to lowering the seat to a less cushy seat if I can't mod a bucket into the space.

[hyper-miler]

Anyone tried to add a equalizing fully sealed hole in the tail to moderate the side wind?

Any thoughts are welcome.