Vetter streamliner body kit

[Electictracer]

This is a funny thread to read, lots of offshoots.

Every time I try and pencil out electric anything if find it dies quickly when comparing it to a gasoline engine. It’s easy to make 750W motor look good against a 35HP engine, but your comparing apples to oranges. With the battery pack you’re looking at $1000 in drive train. I have seen 4-stroke 49cc gas engines for $60. Add a chain and some other fab and you got $100, more power, range, and its lighter. Don’t get me wrong, I love electric power, it’s my thing, but it just does not work right now.

So back to Mr. Vetter’s topic, would people buy the kit? Maybe a couple, but I don’t think enough to bother. The reason is the same as why Sendler is building his electric bike. It’s cool to create something that’s your own. This forum is full of very opinionated people with their own ideas that they want to see through. Yes, Vetter’s design might be the most efficient open-sided streamliner. That will not keep people from wanting to do their own thing. I think that’s what makes eco-modding great!

[sendler]

Originally Posted by Electictracer

With the battery pack you’re looking at $1000 in drive train.

The only thing even tempting me to be an early adopter of an EV is the give away price on the A123 cell clones. Amazingly small size and $.40 per Wh. Fuel savings vs riding my motorcycle is only $300 per year if I ride it 100 days. Pay back of 10 years is pretty common for an EV. Just in time for a new battery. If I can make it to 34Wh per mile with good streamling, that is 1000 mpg-e

[beatr911]

We already know aerodynamics is the right thing to do, resulting in so many benefits. I just wish we knew how to get more people on board this aerodynamic train.

Seems the only thing to do is lead by example. Then offer to help others. Gee, I can think of only one person doing this. Craig Vetter.

Guess I better get my hands off the keyboard and into the garage!

[sheepdog 44]

Hey Sendler, you said you were looking into getting a cbr 125? Just going through ebay and found this from canada that the owner is willing to bring to vermont. Honda : CBR in Honda | eBay Motorcycles

[cvetter]

You are right. Few want my kit parts. Therefore, I am not working on finishing the molds. That said, the original nose mold is being used to make nose parts for a few. It is rough but if it is good enough for me, it is good enough for you.

Right? See what is involved

By the way, we are planning 3 Vetter Challenges in 2013, same place as in 2012.

Craig

[sendler]

Originally Posted by sheepdog 44

Hey Sendler, you said you were looking into getting a cbr 125?

The pre gen CBR125R could make a winning streamliner and are selling cheap now that the 250 is out. In stock form it might be 1 or 2 mph not quite fast enough to keep up but with streamlining it could be geared to make 80 mph and bring back 130 mpg at 65. I am off limits to buy another bike right now as I am up to 4 with the new PCX150 I bought in August. I also got the bug out of nowhere to build a plug in electric Bicycle. Project 40.40.40. Watch for it here and on the Endless Sphere forum. 40 miles at 40 mph using 40 Watthr per mile which is about 850 mpge. I just spent $850 on a new Performer recumbent and will need another $1200 for A123 Amp20 cells, a Crystalyte HS3540 hub motor, and electronics. I already had several Meanwell power supplies from an abandoned audio project to series up as chargers.
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[cvetter]

Consider the following:
Streamlining is only one shape: Round at the front, pointed at the rear
The smallest frontal area that does the job will determine the overall streamlined shape
Streamlining allows the least energy to push a person down the road

The Vetter goal:
Design for a person sitting upright and comfortable.
Design for being able to travel 70mph in 30 mph winds
Design to carry a useful load
End up with a vehicle that is “not more trouble than it is worth”
End up with a vehicle that is your “first choice”

The “Last Vetter Fairing”
When I began this project in 2009 I was aware that if I did my job well, this would be the last fairing I would ever need to design.

Anybody trying to solve the same problem will arrive at the same shape that I have.

This means that we will all look the same.

What is the point to each person re-inventing parts to end up with the same shape?

[minimac]

Originally Posted by cvetter

[B]

What is the point to each person re-inventing parts to end up with the same shape?

The sense one gets by doing it themselves! Besides, whose to say there isn't a better(cheaper) way of making it?

[PeterS]

Originally Posted by cvetter

It is horsepower that consumes your fuel.
A vehicle with more horsepower consumes more fuel.
A vehicle with less horsepower consumes less fuel.
Streamlining allows less horsepower to do the job
Therefore, streamlining and horsepower go together.
In American road conditions, 70 mph, into headwinds, etc. we are learning that somewhere around 18 HP* will do the job.

Most 18 HP bikes will not go 70 mph, into a 30 mph headwind, over mountain passes...etc etc. Streamlined, they will. You can see from 5 years of experimenting on my web page that 100mpg can be achieved in normal driving with no change in driving habits. 100 mpg driving the way we really drive is pretty good.
With less than 18 hp and you cannot go typical American speeds.

More than 18 hp would allow you to be able to go faster. You would not notice much in the way of reduced fuel consumption since you have too much horsepower.

Strong demand for streamlined kits? It appears that there is no demand at all. Even among Ecomodders, only one thinks he might buy a nose kit. Read this thread.

If I finish the tooling, I will be happy to sell him or you a nose kit.

By the way... for pricing, I simply double the cost from my fiberglass supplier.

*18 hp is approximate. We are still homing in on the right number

Thanks Craig, I'm in Australia and buying even parts of your kit would be silly with the freight , so not for me but I want to thank you for all the info and photos you have posted on your site. I will have to make my own but it will be inspired by your work. I hope you don't mind this, it's unfair to you .... were I on the continent US you'd get my money for the cone at least.


A general question , using our calculator Aerodynamic & rolling resistance, power & MPG calculator - EcoModder.com and pasting in 400 lb weight
8 square foot frontal area
and a cd of .55 I get close to the 18hp at 70mph, perhaps a little more but with a 30 mph headwind as well, an effective 100 mph. I have to paste in a cd of .35 for 18hp.

This seems unlikely with the open sides on Craig's fairing, it's more like Allert territory.

Has anyone calculated what Craig's cd is approximately?

.55 sounds about right to me and a good number too and one I personally would be happy with but it doesn't work on the calculator.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by PeterS

.55 sounds about right to me and a good number too and one I personally would be happy with but it doesn't work on the calculator.

Cd .55 is an off the shelf Hayabusa. Craig's design is way better than that. But it is a little bigger. It would be fun to see one measured