Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 


Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-21-2007, 06:28 PM   #1 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 20,775

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
Last 3: 51.27 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 60.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,631
Thanked 5,537 Times in 2,840 Posts
Video: (definitely worth checking) test drive of Aptera @ Popular Mechanics

They tease, and tease....

VERY cool video of the Aptera Typ-1e electric vehicle in action. Plenty of detail you haven't seen in other vids or articles.



Each successive version of the prototype has been better looking than the
last - while giving up none of the car's outstanding aero efficiency. Way to go
Aptera for short-circuiting the typical design progression of "wow" to "mundane".

For those who haven't yet heard, the Aptera is an ultra-aerodynamic (claimed Cd of 0.11) 3-wheel vehicle being built in California. It will be sold initially as an all electric version with a 120 mile range, and a series hybrid extended range (via internal combustion generator) version is also planned.

Quote:
Aptera only needs to sell 300 vehicles to make the company profitable. So far the company has over 580 orders for the $27,000 Typ-1 e and the $30,000 Typ-1 h. Pilot production is set to begin with 30 Typ-1 e vehicles next year
Video & article @ PM : Aptera's Super-MPG Electric Typ-1 e: Exclusive Video Test Drive

__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 12-21-2007, 06:54 PM   #2 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 20,775

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
Last 3: 51.27 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 60.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,631
Thanked 5,537 Times in 2,840 Posts
FYI, official Aptera promotional (fluffy) vid, from YouTube:



And here's a handy search of "Aptera" at YT:
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...&search=Search
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 08:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
igo
Master EcoModder
 
igo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wheeling, WV
Posts: 410

Mini Box Truck - '05 Scion Xb
90 day: 32.87 mpg (US)

It FITs - '09 Honda Fit Sport
90 day: 38.08 mpg (US)
Thanks: 12
Thanked 13 Times in 9 Posts
Thats so cool! They really went into detail about it (I might have to watch that again). It has a heat pump that spits air out the back to futher reduce drag! Even the wiper is super low profile!

Truly a super eco machine.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 08:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 20,775

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
Last 3: 51.27 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 60.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,631
Thanked 5,537 Times in 2,840 Posts
Yup. I really like that car (well... motorcycle, technically) for so many reasons.
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 08:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
igo
Master EcoModder
 
igo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wheeling, WV
Posts: 410

Mini Box Truck - '05 Scion Xb
90 day: 32.87 mpg (US)

It FITs - '09 Honda Fit Sport
90 day: 38.08 mpg (US)
Thanks: 12
Thanked 13 Times in 9 Posts
The interior is awesome looking too. Sort of imac/ nintendo wii inspired. I don't understand the rear wheel suspension. I notice that the driver sits kind of high so it might be hard for a 85 year old to climb into the car (but not much harder then a large suv).

Also, How would driving with 3 wheels affect the handing?
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 09:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 20,775

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
Last 3: 51.27 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 60.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,631
Thanked 5,537 Times in 2,840 Posts
They also mention that some of the interior materials are pretty green too - in terms of natural and/or recycled materials.

Handling is probably fine in terms of slalom type manoeuvers - tadpole config is pretty stable. The red flag goes up though because oversteer is a lot more likely if the rear tire slides when cornering (from either braking or accelerating). They could minimize that danger somewhat with ABS & traction control.

Another potential issue with the center 3rd wheel is it will tend to be riding in the oily patch on the roads. And driving in snow might be a problem, since it doesn't track in the normal "ruts" made by traffic.

Then again, they're not planning to sell these things in the snow belt.
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 09:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
igo
Master EcoModder
 
igo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wheeling, WV
Posts: 410

Mini Box Truck - '05 Scion Xb
90 day: 32.87 mpg (US)

It FITs - '09 Honda Fit Sport
90 day: 38.08 mpg (US)
Thanks: 12
Thanked 13 Times in 9 Posts


The only rear shot I could find. Anyways, there is an article attached to the video everyone make sure to read it because it is filled with useful info. So, they will make the windows able to roll down (I was concerned that they wouldn't be able to go down. I still think they won't be able to go down all the way).

Another concern is that the front wheel skirts would get all chewed up form curbs and low speed contact.

Last edited by igo; 12-21-2007 at 09:20 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 09:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 20,775

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
Last 3: 51.27 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 60.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,631
Thanked 5,537 Times in 2,840 Posts
Maybe they'll do the "window within a window" approach like the Subaru SVX:



Or the AMC Pacer approach, where it just doesn't roll down all the way!
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 05:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 152

The Mighty Mira - '92 Daihatsu Mira
90 day: 61.32 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
I was just thinking about velomobiles this morning, thinking to myself why even the best velomobiles like the Quest have relatively poor drag coefficients? The solution would be to raise the body of the vehicle so that the ground effect was minimal (this is the reason that cars used to be thought of as having a 0.11 theoretical minimum drag coefficient), and have two airfoil shaped spars with cowled front wheels. That way, stability would also be the same as a ground-hugging velomobiles. You might also increase driveline efficiency, because you might be able to have one long chain going from the front to the back (not sure how many chains there are in something like the quest, but looking at the front page it looks like there are several.

Everything close to the ground (only the wheels) is very narrow and cowled as a teardrop. And the "fuselage" is also an airfoil shape. Velos like the Quest are shaped like an airfoil, but being a groundhugger they'd be better off being shaped more like the Vector.

This page is darn cool, it lists most of the velomobile drag coefficients.

Quest:


Vector:


Doing all those things makes a vehicle surprisingly like the Aptera. Note also the relatively good crosswind performance, because the shape is streamlined from partly side on as well.

Anyway, back to the velomobile, if you did the things I was suggesting, you could reduce frontal area of the fuselage so it could be narrower than the Quest. And the cowled wheels would be fairly narrow and add little to the overall CdA.

Who knows, you might even end up with something that wouldn't slow up 60kph city traffic. With electric assist, it could be the ultimate commuting vehicle.
__________________
"Every body perseveres in its state of being at rest or of moving uniformly straight forward, except insofar as it is compelled to change its state by force impressed." - Isaac Newton
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 07:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
MechE
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,151

The Miata - '01 Mazda MX-5 Miata
Thanks: 0
Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts
Holy crap - it's actually a tangible prototype! Very Cool

Newton, keep in mind that the quest and vector serve two different purposes Vector is for speed, quest is for commuting/recreation/touring efficiently If I recall, the vector is a frame/fairing - and the quest (and mango counterpart) is a frame/fairing composite monoqoque with sub frame (very cool ). The quest also has some large holes in the front for ventilation...

Quest Interior:


Quote:
You might also increase drive line efficiency, because you might be able to have one long chain going from the front to the back (not sure how many chains there are in something like the quest, but looking at the front page it looks like there are several.
Multiple chains with good reason Long chains are more susceptible to wobble - not so great for reliability. Adding guides and tensioners just creates more (if not the same) friction as a jack shaft. Plus, a jack shaft gives you the opportunity to up your gearing Long chains can also be problematic with dérailleurs and such (at least, it makes tuning much more important and finicky) I'm not saying either one is better or worse - but I've seen first hand why those decisions were made My last point - the drive line losses are insignificant compared to the aero losses and any weight penalty. It's not that they're not important - but given that, it's cost effective to improve where you can get higher gains

__________________
Cars have not created a new problem. They merely made more urgent the necessity to solve existing ones.
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com