Natural Gas Cars

[Big Dave]

I’ve been reading about this gas “fracking” thing and it may (eventually) be a game-changer.

For the last year or so with fracked gas on the market, natura gas has been selling for $3.75-$4.50/MMBTU on the NYMEX at Henry Hub. Add two buck/MMBTU for transportation and compression, and we have an untaxed price of $5.75-6.50/MMBTU. 1 MMBTU is (1/0.1276=) 7.837 gallon gasoline equivalent. Untaxed that means CNG prices would range from $0.73 to $0.829 per gallon gasoline equivalent. Add 85 cents for rax and we see natural gas in the $1.50-$1.70 range.

Very competitive.

So how do we take advantage of it, presuming it becomes widely available?

Myself, I would not use a diesel with an add-on carburetor or natural gas injection system. What you are doing there is using your diesel engine as a very heavy and inefficient spark plug.

Me, I’d get a vehicle with a gas engine. Jack up the compression and advance the ignition timing to take advantage of the high octane of CNG. One of these new F-150s with their direct-injection twin-turbo V-6s would do nicely. (although I’ve heard negative reports about their six-speed automatics – I’ve heard they “hunt” for torque converter lockup)

Pull out the gas tank and put a small CNG tank in its place. Put my main CNG tanks in the bed. The bed will be filled up with fuel tanks and would be useless for cargo. (Maybe a gooseneck hitch ball or maybe a small fith wheel) I’d fair it over with an aerodynamic lid. Make the truck a big coupe. In an 80 bed plus the original gas tank space I figure that gives me a vehicle with maybe 700 miles range and enough cargo space to haul my groceries.

Remember that the injectors and fuel lines will have to be considerably bigger to accommodate the less dense fuel.

What would really be sweet: In some parts of the country some properties have old played-out gas wells. WV, OH, and IN are full of them. Now “played-out” means commercially. Quite possibly the old well can produce enough gas to run your vehicle (and house). You can buy small prep plants (removes the hydrogen sulfide and carbon dioxide) and a compressor in a shipping container. A little plumbing and wiring and Bingo! Free gas! Well, not quite free, the electric motors require power.

Now the pain of a big vehicle that has little payload space becomes very livable.

[bwilson4web]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

. . .
So how do we take advantage of it, presuming it becomes widely available?
. . .

The EPA requires a gas conversion car go through the same emissions testing that today's new cars go through, easily $250-500,000. They also require certified installers.

GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

The EPA requires a gas conversion car go through the same emissions testing that today's new cars go through, easily $250-500,000. They also require certified installers.

GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson

The US government has decided that you are not allowed to use CNG in a car and has made it prohibitively expensive to convert. (much like buying a euro car) If you buy a new honda CNG you can get around this problem but then still have another problem with pumping.

Anyway, The emissions business is a non-issue. (there are ways around it) The certified installers are a definite issue.

Expect $10-$20k in the US to convert a car and another $5-10k to have the privilege of pumping your own CNG at your house.

If you go to Mexico, its $800 parts and labor to convert most any car to CNG, you need a proper tank, carb and obviously hookups and lines.

The real sad part is the tank and setup you buy in Mexico is usually no different (same brands) as you would pay $10k for here due to the cost of the certified installer.

Next you would have to locate a proper pump for the CNG and you would have to do it all yourself. (this is actually easier than the car part but still a big problem if the wrong someone sees the system)

Then after you do all this if somebody catches you they fine you and crush your car.

Being that you have a diesel you may be able to bypass this somewhat VIA using a similar setup as a propane diesel combo. AKA if they caught you, they could do nothing since your vehicle is still a diesel. Then you would just need a proper tank, pump and regulator so you could run a propane booster setup with CNG. (ideally you would want your diesel to remain at idle and only increase the CNG amount in the intake)

Maybe ecomodders need to perform some civil disobediance to try to force the government to change its egomanical ways of crippling usefull and pollution reducing technology and reenable the american pastime of importing grey market cars.

Makes you want to get involved in government eh?

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

I’ve been reading about this gas “fracking” thing and it may (eventually) be a game-changer.

Me, I’d get a vehicle with a gas engine. Jack up the compression and advance the ignition timing to take advantage of the high octane of CNG. One of these new F-150s with their direct-injection twin-turbo V-6s would do nicely. (although I’ve heard negative reports about their six-speed automatics – I’ve heard they “hunt” for torque converter lockup)


Now the pain of a big vehicle that has little payload space becomes very livable.

Also remember I wanted to own a Honda CNG car but discovered it was too cumbersome in my area (no non-restricted filling locations, expensive pump install and maintenance) I would have bought a Honda CNG car in a heartbeat if it had dual fuel so I could fill when I am in the fox cities area and get cheap "gas" and not have range anxiety when I am in any other area of the state which do not have CNG.

If I can't convince you otherwise, Ford sold various years of F-250/350 and their eq. vans with CNG from the factory, ideally you would want dual fuel as you will find CNG stations are not the easiest to locate in most areas.

In other words, buy a car that is already CNG and don't bother trying to convert, several fords are available at the lacrosse wi. honda dealer oddly enough.

Cheers
Ryan

[cleanspeed1]

It is a sad state of affairs when the most obvious and easiest solution is made cost prohibitive. I know with the diesels, just having a CNG or propane assist usually doubles the mileage. If you look up Technocarb, they have the pieces convert engines to direct port style injection. Eliminates the driveability problems, and they have probably been at it the longest.

[tjts1]

The federal government has no control over your back yard conversions. Its the states that dictate what you can and can't do to your road registered car. Find out what your local regulations are and go for it. California will actually refund the tax on CNG for road use.

[user removed]

Just use an antique car or one that is old enough to not have the emission issues.

regards
Mech

[user removed]

A motorcycle would be neat.

regards
Mech

[Frank Lee]

Ecomodder "shovel" has a CNG Tempo, and he has talked about it here.

*jealous*

[bertb]

Here in Oklahoma City there is an energy company called Chesapeake, their fleet vehicles F150s are all CNG, when they are done with them they find their way onto the used market. I've seen several on Craigslist. Was going to buy one before I got my Civic but couldn't put two car seats and Moma in a 3-seater. There are at least 2 filling stations in town that sell for $1.39 a gallon.