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Old 03-08-2012, 10:03 PM   #51 (permalink)
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OK... I'm going to restart this thread. I do apologize for not getting back to a couple of you, I had intended to... next thing I know its past bed time...and 4:45a just seems like it comes earlier that it used to.

But... I'm not an idiot... don't refer to me as one... we CHOSE to have full-size when we could afford it, and ran the small ones when we could not... but seems every time we just about get comfortable... they F with the prices citing a bunch of BS that has absolutely nothing to do with it. That's what just dfrives me wild. So now I have a 16k "cadillac" 1 ton I can't afford to run and cant sell and took 40 years to get!!! I also irritates me that my 3/4 ton can't see its 300+k potential... but I got 272k, but killing a perfectly fine running vehicle is just because it gets 13 mpg bothers me. If the reasons were real it would be one thing... the reasons are not real , contrived and controlled...

I'd also swear that EPA is in bed with it too to try and force the larger ones off the road. Thats social engineering and I abhor it! That is not a govt's business to do... period end of story ...don't even try to defend it! What LA or the east coast needs for air quality control.... has NOTHING to do with out in the country and 95% of all the land's in the Midwest and west... where everything is far away... but since most of the regulators can't relate and enact rules that effect us!!! When we weren't the ones that needed change due to non-attainment.

I don't believe global warming is soley due to man emitted.... much of it is natural... funny now is "climate change". So I don't want to hear about my Carbon Footprint! Since we have a tiny by most standards home, and heat with wood as our primary source, our real foot print is small... the location and commute distances are fixed... something the models wont take into account.... it would have us all stacked like cordwood in condos next door to work... and running electric vehicles that can't work here at least conventionally...

Unfortunately, that's exactly where corporate America has everyone... a transient work force, trading one suburbia-ville crackerjack box box for another at the corporates whim... the only thing that changed is the zip code. The on the other hand unless your grandfathers grandfather was born here you can't get the better jobs local and have to commute... they love our long distance money, but don't try to earn it here... its reserved for family only!

While it wasn't here in Ohio we had the same problem growing up in Bucks Co Pa.... everything controlled by the land owners... Dad lived in the main house of a second farm Leedom owned by marriage... but we were ALWAYS outsiders and always "the tennents". Dad was only aloud to rent land only barely suited to a profit... While I learned a lot of skills growing up on Leedoms farm and dads custom work... It also left big scars as we were not aloud to own... almost all the land owners were upteenth generations from land grants... Basically I still believe Leedom used Dad wearing out his equipment trying to pay for them so dad could get a farm of his own

Times changed and a line of equipment wasn't enough... by then they were wore out... belonged to Dad, but somehow controlled by Leedom!

I once kicked off a Leedom hired hand at another Leedom farm Dad was providing the tractor to for filling silo. It was a wet year,,, and we dualled everything... this idiot at wide open throttle was just slamming the clutch back and forth with likely 3000 lbs of mud stuffed in between the wheel segments that dad didn't block out. 6000# of instant mass resistance (plus the normal amount) going through the drive line in 1st and reverse on a Farmall 560 (the calcium in the tires is fluid and does not react that way). First I explaned this told him not to slam it so hard... that wasn't going to help.

I doubt he could understand the concept and he ignored me, I was only 13, and relegated to running wagons and the blower yet that year... (I chopped the next), so I reached up shut the tractor down an told him to get off... and to go run wagons... I then proceeded to disconnect the wagon... get the tractor and chopper out of the mud... re-hooked to the wagon from the side... and I then continued to chop... never being instructed nor needing any.

Norman (the farm owner) came out and asked and I held my ground... he then shut down for the day... But RATHER than Dad backing me up on my decision as he should have... NORMAN had some kinda hold over Dad and our equipment... and I was told by Dad it was ok for that idiot to run it. Sure enough he tore it up in a couple days as he did everything he touched.

This was one of thousands of incidences of those with the money CONTROLING those without while growing up... two guesses who we were.

They would have NEVER let Dad climb up to equal status... Dad kept trying for years... but he had no other way to pursue his dream of his own farm. Dad tried to buy on various ways... but Leedom and the other long time names wouldn't sell.... So dad worked a factory at night and let himself get screwed by Leedoms for 23 years. When Leedom had sold his other farm to developers, he gave dad 60 days to vacate after 23 years... I was there 22 years. Nope, this left scars... I'll NOT be controlled in any manor if I can help it! Its one of the reasons were so far out from the city here... I could not have had zoning or any other controls on land we were buying.

OK.. enough of why i am what I am... what is is it what is it. On the new thread.... just the technology.... don't call me names, imply your opinions things like "idiotic running boards", I now the physics, and I know how the research game is played...so I only believe 1/3 of it regardless of the subject, but especially on oil and environmental. You want to believe all their BS have at it... I do not and never will.

I also KNOW they have the power to screw us any way they want to. I REFUSE to let them win, by buying in to the BS. Some of you did the same in a way by going the other extreme and use as little oil as possible... ie. as little of your money as possible. There are 1000s and thousands of capped wells they will not pump here in the US... some because they have to pay too much on the contract... just thousands of greedy things to cheat the American people of the oil that belongs to all the natural born citizens of this country... The state of New Mexico kept all mineral rights when they became a state... one can only buy limited surface rights which really mean NOTHING if the state wants to lease the oil under you!!!! Your house and your mortgage means nothing...

While yes I did small cars I will never be comfortable in them. So yes I need a couple of tons of metal around me. I have seen the results of light vs heavy way too many times... I held injured and dieing people in my arms, and one died in my arms... so don't tell me I am idiot because I do not share your view on small and protection.

Still say I can offset on the 1 ton by some meaningful way... its the net that matters. I also can tend to engineer and think way outside the box. My shop also has machine tools... 14x5' lathe and a van norman #12 Mill... true antiques but work perfectly. So... start thinking outside the box... If one e-motor is too small think about two... if 30 batteries isn't enough... think 60... [I]f one bank doesn't have the range ... use two... and switch over.

Just because a small car can't carry it... a one ton can... Now is it cost effective? I don't know... that's what we're to figure out. I'm leery of non-deisel oils... as hurting that cummins is expensive. I'm not real sure on the lean burn settings on the after market booster kits. Cooked valves are expensive. Maybe shut down the cummins on a cruise and let it roll on the level with a smaller engine... use the cummins when needed... who knows... the stage is wide open.

Obviously areo... its a given... might go to a single tire rear end and bed... I don't know yet... the dually catches a lot of air.... but maybe if we custom areo the lower part... whatever. I do not care if any you think any one ton dually is idiotic.... Your entitled to believe want you want... but so am I. Now, I want to lower my cost per mile... and electric can do that at least for a while, but as just as soon as electric is viable they will tax the living **** out of it because they can

Also when I need it to do what it was designed for... heavy towing and hauling... I want the battery bank to slide out and recovery my gross capacity... see, OUTSIDE the BOX. Open your minds... not everything has to be tiny.

But I keep the leather seats and the cup holder!

I'll start the new thread tomorrow sometime... Its time for bed now.


...nite all.


Last edited by dem45133; 03-09-2012 at 01:02 PM..
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:14 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Umm... yeah.... OK....
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Old 03-09-2012, 03:50 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Aesop's fable about Hercules and the wagoner seems to dominate my thoughts recently.
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Old 03-09-2012, 10:17 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by roosterk0031 View Post
Please hit return once and a while. Paragraphs are way easier to read. Post like that are skipped. I'll come back tomorow to see if it's legible.
Did that... sorry it was a mind dump. I do way too many pregnant pulses. Pleaseread it now... all of you... you need to see through my eyes for a minute to understand.
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Old 03-09-2012, 10:23 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SentraSE-R View Post
Aesop's fable about Hercules and the wagoner seems to dominate my thoughts recently.
See... you still think I'm a fool and an idiot... I read the fable.... I am trying to self help... but I do not believe the BS you've evidently have bought into. I have seen LA's smog, yes its horrible. Its like hitting a wall when coming in from Palm Springs, but I do not and never will live there. Commuter trains, E cars, mass transit all work there and are needed... but it has nothing to do with the Heart of America... the Midwest (not real sure Ohio qualifies... some say it the Midwest... still east by my map. Dad and my paternal side of the family is IA, WI, and MN, although he went east for 23 years (where he met Mom). After Leedom's screwing he gave up and went back to WI... and after 9 months was struck down by the massive brain tumor, due to carelessness with early ag chemicals and factory work before OSHA.

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Old 03-09-2012, 11:29 AM   #56 (permalink)
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No, Dave. I definitely don't think you're a fool or idiot. I genuinely like you. The fable is the progenitor of the phrase/adage "God helps those who help themselves," and/or "self-help is the best help."
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:59 PM   #57 (permalink)
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See... you still think I'm a fool and an idiot...
Yeah, but you know what? It's pretty hard not to think that, when you lard your posts with social & political opinions that seem designed to prove that you are - or that you think we are. So you had a tough childhood? Guess what: so did some of the rest of us.

If you're really interested in ideas to help improve your fuel economy, you'll find plenty of people here willing to help. But again, unless you're willing to broaden the parameters of what you're willing to accept, you're only going to see marginal improvements, whereas if you change them, you will see an instant large payback for much less upfront cost. It's just physics.

PS: In a nutshell, a lot of people here have strong political & economic opinions that are pretty much diametrically opposed to yours. If you want technical help, stick to technical questions. If you interject political opinions into a thread, it will turn into a political debate.

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Old 03-09-2012, 01:04 PM   #58 (permalink)
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New thread started.... see "01 Dodge 3500 4x4 Dully challenge".

This thread is dead now.

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Old 03-09-2012, 01:08 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Okay, so you want to make your choice of vehicle get better mileage. That is what this forum is for. You already know that your choice of vehicle is not what most of us would choose for a daily commuter if total cost of ownership was on our mind. These days vehicles can last for many hundreds of thousands of miles with good maintenance practices, yes even powerful 4 cylinder cars - but that is a different discussion.

I think he is asking us what can he do to his rig to better the mileage. He would probably want to have a number as to what he would be able to attain.

So, for the sake of sheer ecomodding discussion enjoyment, lets explore what could be done. I'd wager that most of the full size, 4wd, dually buyers are in the same boat as him. The manufacturers are probably shaking thier head wondering why anyone would buy a rig like this to drive long distances at thier own expense, but they sell at a tidy profit so they'll make and sell what customers will pay for.

The assumed constraints are:
1) Got to still have 1ton pickup utility.
2) Got to keep 4wd.
3) Got to keep the dually wheels.
4) Got to drive 70.
5) Got to be cheap because the reason is fuel is expensive.

The suggestions so far are:
1) Aerodynamic bed shell.
2) Driving technique.
3) Drive something else.
4) Massive plug in hybrid DIY.

Only the aeroshell meets the criteria as far as I can tell. Other suggestions that may meet the criteria:

Grille block.
Undertray.
Inflate tire to sidewall maximum.
Fold back or install smaller outside rear view mirrors.
Make your own bio-diesel out in the barn.
Taller gearing.

For most of the conditions (70mph, hauling only his butt), aerodynamics is the largest potentially variable factor. All told, I'd guess a 10% improvement is all that is to be expected within the constraints. Maybe another 5% with taller gearing?

Any other additions/deletions/suggestions?
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:11 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Yes. A special surtax on foolishness.

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