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Old 03-04-2012, 12:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Want cake and eat it too

Good day to all of you. Since I am a DIYer and have designed and built a few things that either didn't exist from standard manufacturing or simply were too expensive... this site appeals to me. I am "green" but only to a point as I do not believe at least 50% of the propaganda on all sides of the subject of Energy, Fuels, and Alt E... partly because big $ and governments wants us to believe what it wants us to believe and partially because of what I know of natural earth and cosmic sciences. I am an Environmental Scientist by trade and education (23 years) so I pick and choose what I believe has merit or not. I will also not discuss these kind of things as true or not true with any of you. That's not why I'm here. I like alt E and I researched wind E relatively extensively and have some ideas... but SW Ohio is very borderline on wind... or sun for that matter too. Return on investment is almost non-existent in this part of the country. Where sufficient winds exists, I think its cool, where sufficient solar days exists so is it. But neither work well in SW Ohio.

But being a tinkerer and a DIY type with a full shop... the idea of a home built hybrid has appeal. But as one who disdains small cars and has never been able to shake the "rolling coffin" feeling when in one, and has spent 40+ years driving full size land yachts, 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton trucks as primary with ~ 2.6 million miles under my belt, and generally weighed in a 4500 lbs or more (7200 for the 1 ton, 80k when I drove semi for three years) I feel totally vulnerable in small cars. I also know too much about the laws of physics. I also own and pull any of 5 trailers, none of which can be pulled by a 4 banger... and the latest requires the 1 ton Cummins as it weighs 12k. Don't waste your effort on converting me to small... it wont happen. But... I do need to offset my fuel costs on my 120 mile RT commute.

Now, I am farm born an raised and we chose to live in the country... which means long commutes and miles to do basically anything. Just the way it is. Cities and suburbviavilles just don't work for us... and I've been in almost all the major cities this country has and on both coasts... not interested in seeing them again. My nearest neighbor is 1000ft away... if it were a mile it would even be better.

Being this is the way it is... I need a electric that still caries the ICE when the battery gets low or I need to pull a trailer... but I also need to maintain 70 miles an hour continuous on E both uphill and down on a four lane partially limited access, as well as on twisty 55 mph country roads that are generally run at 62 mph, but you are constantly slowing for a 30 or 40 mph curves and re- accelerating and always climbing or coasting up or down hill. The southern part of our county couldn't make a 1000ft of level strait road if it added all the sections together. I'm not going to drive a four lane at less that 65 or 70, or less than 62 on a good country 2 lane... so that's my performance criteria.

Oh and we live on the peninsula end of a ridge.... that is up 10%+ slopes to get here... even after 118 miles of running when I get home from work. Battery bank has to have this reserve in it too. Has to get to the driveway.

So all the above being what it is... Small unit conversions will not work for multiple reasons... but I have the capacity for battery weight... and will will require a larger than normal DC motor or multiple small ones. But the more batteries the more charging amps require to charge overnight... but I can wire 40 amp 220 to anywhere too.

Ideas? (Other than telling me to go small...as I said it won't happen, but my fuel cost will be better than $500 month soon just to go to work 4 days a week... last fill up on the one ton cost $108 and will go 500 miles, same gallons on the 3/4 ton will only go 330 miles... constant hills and curves remember).

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Old 03-04-2012, 06:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Do you consider a midsize like a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry small? If that's small for you then work on aero mods on the vehicle of your choice.

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Old 03-04-2012, 08:35 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yea, a little small but not as bad as the little Mazda 608 I had a while ago in the early 80s, or the 1990 Plymouth Horizon. But both got mileage. On the 1100 cc Mazda (yes 1100 cc)... I just could not get over the feeling that car was going to kill me... absolutely could not be driven in a straight line on a windy day. After 6 months I sold it. Got 35 mpg on old tech. The little Horizon is a pure 100% econo-box... absolutely zero creature comforts, but also gets 35+ average mileage on its little 2.2 cross mount. My wife has a 94 Chrysler Concord with a 3.3 V6 and it gets 23 or so mpg normal 25 on the interstate, which I think today its considered a full size. Its about as small as I'd consider. Other than these I've always had conventional V8s in half or 3/4 tons. Recently (2 years ago) picked up a 2001 Dodge 3500 4x4 extended cab HO Cummins/6 speed. Gets 20 on the interstate if not over 60... but I almost never drive 60 on an interstate.... typically 70. They also have to withstand at least one deer hit a year around here. I ended up hitting a 1200 lb dark red chestnut horse on a very dark rainy foggy morning with the 1 ton with a fairly hefty guard on the front. Actually there was two of them dancing in the road, the other one was black and neither showed up in the lights until I was right on em. The truck and I drove away with only a few k of damage (mostly to the dually fender after the horse flipped around from the front impact) and the horse was dead... If I'd been in the itty-bitty Mazda or today's equivalent I'd likely have been dead too as it would have pivoted at the hood line as the legs were shoved out from under it and the 1200 lb animal would have been trying to squeeze through the windshield! Country living has a few unique hazards suburbiaville does not. Something to be said for height and weight out here.

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Old 03-04-2012, 09:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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It seems like you've got some seriously mutually exclusive wants/needs.

Not to worry, I think yhat I've found a hybrid that will meet your stringent

"In most cases we matched or exceeded the Humvee's capabilities," said
General Dynamics' Tom Trzaska, citing improved mobility, recon ability, and
providing a better platform for employing a machine gun such as the M2 .50
Cal Browning. The RST-V also has a significant edge over the Humvee in fuel
economy. The average fuel usage for a deployed Humvee conducting an
extended reconnaissance mission is 1,040 pounds per month, but only 440
pounds for the RST-V.

"The RST-V reduces the foot print you have to take to the field through
increased fuel economy," said Trzaska.

It may also be used for light strike duties, as a battlefield ambulance, for air
defence, logistics, as a personnel carrier or as anti-armour and a mortar
weapons carrier once the System Design and Development (SDD) phase is
completed by ONR in 2005.

Propulsion System
The Shadow runs on a hybrid-electric drive based on a front mounted
turbocharged, inter-cooled common rail direct injection diesel engine, type
2.5 litre DI-4V rated at 114kW. The diesel engine powers a 110kW Magnet
Motors permanent magnet generator that drives four 50kW Magnet Motors
permanent magnetic hub motors, mounted one in each of the Shadow's four
wheel hubs.

The Shadow is fitted with a pneumatic suspension. It's dimensions can be
reduced by allowing the tyres to be pulled in (from 79in footprint to 62in) and
the height can be dropped so the base of the vehicle is 0.1m off the ground.
Crucially, this will enable transport by V-22 tiltrotor.

Red more: US Marines RST-V Hybrid Tactical Vehicle

I suspect that you'll think that I'm joking...
I'm not, it is the only thing that I can find that would work for you.

I think there's an important question that still needs to be considered. Maybe
it's time for you to do some validation of your needs and desires. It just
might be that all you want just can't be got in a single vehicle. The question
then becomes;

What two vehicles might separately meet your daily commute
and heavy hauling needs?

And then maximize fuel economy for each.
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:47 PM   #5 (permalink)
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something to said for that unit I think (smile)...

especially around here, with crazies, brain fried druggies, horses, cattle, deer, and suicidal rabbits and other critters... it actually would have its place. But at a few hundred k a copy, only the Marines can have one. I showed it to my wife... she wants to know if it come is rose pink! Love this woman! Her primary vehicle was a 96 full size 351 V8 Bronco for 14 years, still have it but can't afford to run it or my trucks.

I know... but it irritates the livin *&^%% out of me that we have to pay 4 bucks a gallon due to a 100% controlled by greed product. Because of their greed I have to alter my life style and place myself at a higher risk, uncomfortable, can't see ahead, and couldn't clear a pop-can, and would loose to an impact with a German Shepard! I have seen the "smart car", several at work have em... I will not drive such a tiny rolling coffin. I also will not ride with almost anyone but my wife either (I know her skills, she drove semi too some years back).

We already do not drive extra miles... we EXPORT our good oil, import the junk, where are we supposed to shave. It took us 1/2 our lives to have our country place... now were supposed to go back to an apartment or controlled surburviaville where you can't do or have anything, all because of greed!

Ah!, I said I wouldn't discuss these things.... I'll shut up now.


Last edited by dem45133; 03-04-2012 at 10:02 PM..
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:09 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I hope that you won't sit down or shut up.

You've come to the right place to talk about fuel economy. We have folks
who drive every conceivable type of vehicle from the big rigs to the...
ah... er... well, for now lets just say smaller vehicles that you don't prefer.
And in my experience they, we, are keenly interested in helping anyone who
cares enough, for whatever reason, to want to minimize their outlays for fuel.

I'd ask that you give us a few data points to begin to work with. For instance,
if 2 vehicles could conceivably cover your needs what types would they be?
Be precise, like a late model Big 3 sedanthat can tow up to 3K lbs and a
diesel pickup to tow up to 13K lbs. You wouldn't get 40 MPG out of either, but
some are better than others and there are lots of little things that can add up
to significant savings.

And I suspect that you already know that readjusting the expectations and
driving habits of the nut behind the wheel is a major part of getting better
fuel economy.

Anyway, I can't wait to see how this conversation is going to proceed...
the ball is in your court.
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Wait a while.


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Old 03-04-2012, 10:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Bah, humbug. 65-70 mph on a 4 lane hwy is pissing gasoline down the toilet. You're not willing to help yourself with those kinds of limitations, Dave.

Boycotting Exxon since 1989, BP since 2010
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:09 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SentraSE-R View Post
Bah, humbug. 65-70 mph on a 4 lane hwy is pissing gasoline down the toilet. You're not willing to help yourself with those kinds of limitations, Dave.

Dave, Welcome...
Darrell has a point there......just sayin!
MetroMPG: "Get the MPG gauge - it turns driving into a fuel & money saving game."

First: ScangaugeII

Second: Grille Block

Third: Full underbelly pan

Fourth: rear skirts and 30.4mpg on trip!
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Old 03-05-2012, 05:52 AM   #10 (permalink)
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"ah... er... well, for now lets just say smaller vehicles that you don't prefer.".... we've always called them "over size go carts".

"Bah, humbug. 65-70 mph on a 4 lane hwy is pissing gasoline down the toilet."

Well, for two people one who grew up in the 60s with big block muscle cars and land yachts that would cruise at 110 all day long and not even breath hard (and the cops were cruising along right with you, it wasn't really considered speeding) and something actually happened when you stepped on it... its hard for us. When they mandated 55 in '78 or whenever it was... it almost killed me... took so long to get anywhere... and I got tickets for 62 mph. 62 mph on open interstate with no traffic is like going backward to me. When traveling... 200 miles is 3 hours, not four. My semi ran out at 75 against the governor and is where is was for three years and 600k, solo, long before CDLs. I was bored to tears almost when for a short time i got is a 58 mph truck, couldn't stand it... left that company. My wife had a 396 Chevelle that could lift the left front tire if it hooked up right... she had an adrenaline gland too. For years and years and engine wasn't really an engine if it wasn't two bank of four arranged in a V.

It will be a hard hard adjustment to get into over size go carts that cant really run. Oh, neat idea on the f150, but regenerative is not too effective in the country, but maybe on the hills and curves... I have one light and two stop signs for the 45 miles (25 on 4 lane, 20 on twisty two lane) to work.


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