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Old 04-18-2021, 08:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The reason behind the law is a good one, but I hope it does not punish the poor.
Most likely the poor will be more noticeably affected by such law. Possibly the motorcycle with a sidecar would be the only choice left for some.


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It will only make that portion of the population hostile to any good regulations.
Parboiled cats are afraid of cold water, as we say in Brazil.


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When I think "classic car" , I think" '57 Chevy", not '93 Civic !
Nowadays even the econoboxes I used to see in the '90s are becoming more treasured, as they're still often priced more reasonably than earlier stuff and reaching 30 years old which is the age a vehicle may be officially recognised as collectible in Brazil.

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Old 04-19-2021, 12:32 AM   #12 (permalink)
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How is this going to work with poor white trash, like myself ?
People that can't afford a new car will be forced to ride the bus.
If there's a bus system that exists where you live.

The question I have is how the transition really would be if something like this were to happen.

Supposedly you could still continue to drive your current ICEV car or buy used ICEV's. Only people who buy new cars would have to buy an EV. The question would be if there'd be the variety to meet public wants. Right now that would mean there'd have to be affordable pickups, vans, economy sedans and hatchbacks; maybe even minivans. I'm sure there'll be plenty of CUV's, SUV's and expensive sedans to choose from. (Please let there be economical minivan and station wagon EV's!)

At some point those new EV's would start becoming semi-used 3 to 5 year old vehicles that the rich new car buyers are trading in for new models. I'm not sure what that would do to the prices of those vehicles if they'll be the typical 1/3 price or so compared to new.

At some point gas stations and parts stores will start to close down or turn to EV fueling stations and parts stores. Will there be enough practical used EV's by that point to make it possible for anyone who can afford an older used ICEV today to be able to afford an older used EV?

Of course on the other hand there's the question of whether the tech will hold up. Sure, right now there are lots of cheap used Nissan Leafs. But there's a reason they are cheap. And they're really not cheap when compared to the cheapest ICEV's you can get. Hopefully the EV revolution doesn't make a bunch of throw away cars.
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Old 04-19-2021, 10:48 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Throw-a-way cars aren't bad if they could be recycled 100%.

I think we will just do like we've always done when things get tight: modify the crap out of our obsolete stuff. The 250's 7.3 is known to burn pretty much anything that wont clog the injectors or melt the pistons. I know the process to turn veggie oil into biofuels and I want to see them end frenchfries
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Old 04-19-2021, 11:28 AM   #14 (permalink)
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The lower income people don't just have cost of purchase to contend with, but the fact that apartments are built as cheaply as possible, meaning they aren't equipped to charge EVs.

Public charging infrastructure usually is fairly expensive; like 5x more expensive than charging at home.
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Old 04-19-2021, 04:11 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Yeah on some electric car FAQs you can find "how much does it cost to run electrical for a car charger?"
Most of them say some like $2,000.
Heck the cheap public j1772 chargers by them selves cost more than that.
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Old 04-19-2021, 08:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The lower income people don't just have cost of purchase to contend with, but the fact that apartments are built as cheaply as possible, meaning they aren't equipped to charge EVs.

Public charging infrastructure usually is fairly expensive; like 5x more expensive than charging at home.
I'm running into this very problem.
This is one reason I decided against a Volt.
Public charging would cost me $63 to "fill up" at 30 cents a minute, and would amount to $2.28 per mile of EV traveled. ( Figure around 28 miles of EV range on an old Volt battery )

So effectively like getting one mile per gallon cost wise.

Not to mention the chargers are always blocked "ICEd in "or broken.

Free charging ? Good luck finding that, and especially so when everyone is required to charge up.

Here in Austin the EV chargers are located in really poorly thought out spots, such as one at the front entrance to a liquor store.

Yeah - I'm gonna leave my car parked in front of a liquor store for three hours.
You would come back to find someone camping out in the back seat, vomiting all over it.
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Old 04-20-2021, 06:47 AM   #17 (permalink)
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That's the EV catch 22. people that could most us the EVs, those that live in population dense Urban areas, have no place to charge EVs.

We need a charging pedistal for every parking spot. Who going to pay? Does the apartment complex charge extra rent? Does the government make aparts put them in?

I don't see EVs being widespread until Apartment dwellers can easly and cheaply charge them.
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Old 04-20-2021, 10:42 AM   #18 (permalink)
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The consumer always pays.

Businesses get money from the consumer, so all costs are always passed on to them (free shipping!)
Government has no money, as their revenue is from the citizens (free education!)
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Old 04-20-2021, 02:00 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The consumer always pays.

Businesses get money from the consumer, so all costs are always passed on to them (free shipping!)
Government has no money, as their revenue is from the citizens (free education!)
I agree. the same with taxes on corprorations. The Corporation passs it on to the consumer.

So who going to pay for EV charging stations for apartment dwellers?

Apartment dwellers.
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Old 04-20-2021, 02:49 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I agree. the same with taxes on corprorations. The Corporation passs it on to the consumer.

So who going to pay for EV charging stations for apartment dwellers?

Apartment dwellers.
It's a bit of an intractable problem. In my estimation, rents are already too high, and it's not just because the owners are greedy. There are high costs associated with owning and maintaining apartments because many tenants abuse them. The only thing treated worse than a rental car would be a rental domicile. People tend not to take good care of things they don't own (the reason why socialism\communism can never work on a large scale).

Perhaps sometime in the future it will be in the apartment owners interest to provide charging as a service to tenants, but currently 97% of vehicles sold are ICE, and there's little incentive to invest in the fringe option.

I'm a rental property owner and I know that renters are typically less responsible in all areas of their life than homeowners. Sure, there are fantastic renters (I was in an apt 2 years ago), but people who are highly motivated and responsible don't tend to rent for long.

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