Washington State's 'Clean Cars 2030' Bill, ban sale of ICE vehicles

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

It's a bit of an intractable problem. In my estimation, rents are already too high, and it's not just because the owners are greedy. There are high costs associated with owning and maintaining apartments because many tenants abuse them. The only thing treated worse than a rental car would be a rental domicile. People tend not to take good care of things they don't own (the reason why socialism\communism can never work on a large scale).

Perhaps sometime in the future it will be in the apartment owners interest to provide charging as a service to tenants, but currently 97% of vehicles sold are ICE, and there's little incentive to invest in the fringe option.

I'm a rental property owner and I know that renters are typically less responsible in all areas of their life than homeowners. Sure, there are fantastic renters (I was in an apt 2 years ago), but people who are highly motivated and responsible don't tend to rent for long.

It's like anything else. For the bad actions of a few everyone else pays. Rent had quadrupled here in the past 10 years. And no, my income hasn't quadrupled. But marijuana was legalized then everyone wants to move here. There's a lot of people now wanting to move here but there aren't any rentals available. And the ones who do rent end up burning down their places because they're high on drugs.

[freebeard]

I live in a community where people own their domicile and rent a small patch of dirt. It's the opposite, where the slum-lord only deals with the 80ft tall trees when a branch falls off (big branches, no-one kilt so far) and his tenants build sheds and 6ft tall fences without permission.

When I lived in the dome, I cut down trees and grinded the grout in the ceramic tile floor. The landlady never complained.*

*Until I gave 30-days notice, then she really turned on me.

[redpoint5]

Rules exist for the wicked and the ignorant.

I've currently got no written contract with the person managing my property. He's not malevolent or dumb, so I can trust he will act in a way responsible to both his interests and mine.

I have an interest in not spending lots of time closely attending to the property, and he has an interest in running it well enough to not gain my attention.

[Hersbird]

What will happen is suddenly used cars under the age of 2030 will jump in price. This will happen in all the surrounding states importing all the good used cars in as it will be the only way to continue driving the car people want. There will also be a huge surge in 2029 new car sales as people figure if they buy a new one and treat it right maybe they can get until 2050 out of it. Sort of like talking gun control leads to an actual increase in gun sales.

Then people will invent a generator hitch so you can run an attached ICE generator to charge the car all night parked in front of your apartment or all day in front of your work with no charging outlets.

At some point in 2050 when everything is actually ready to be 100% EV they will point to the success. Even if every other state that just let the market happen also ends up in the same place

Then in 2051 China nukes us anyway.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

What will happen is suddenly used cars under the age of 2030 will jump in price. This will happen in all the surrounding states importing all the good used cars in as it will be the only way to continue driving the car people want. There will also be a huge surge in 2029 new car sales as people figure if they buy a new one and treat it right maybe they can get until 2050 out of it. Sort of like talking gun control leads to an actual increase in gun sales.

Then people will invent a generator hitch so you can run an attached ICE generator to charge the car all night parked in front of your apartment or all day in front of your work with no charging outlets.

At some point in 2050 when everything is actually ready to be 100% EV they will point to the success. Even if every other state that just let the market happen also ends up in the same place

Then in 2051 China nukes us anyway.

Of course that's how it would play out if the bill actually took effect.

It wasn't designed to take effect though, it was designed as free virtue points to show that "we're fighting for climate justice, pay no attention to the feces in the streets". The 2 parties both try to think of the dumbest ideas they can, score points for their constituents who are playing the same retarded game, and let the future figure out how to handle the fallout.

Free Bentley's for everyone in the year 2050! We'll make Mexico pay for it! Vote for me! All your wildest dreams will come true!

[freebeard]

What will happen is suddenly...

Else the grand experiment of the Union will continue unabated. Other States will either take note of the results and go on about their business, or follow down that path. And we get to have opinions about the result.

[Ecky]

If there were more places to charge, a majority of chargers would not need to be nearly as fast - they could just be normal outlets. If I only had access to a 15 amp 120v outlet at work (~1500w @ 85% efficiency), that would still replace the range used to get there.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Cd

How is this going to work with poor white trash, like myself ?
People that can't afford a new car will be forced to ride the bus.

Pehaps there will be loopholes that get around the law.

They will buy used gas cars or used EVs. You can already get a decent EV for about $6,000 - there are bound to be more used EVs available in 2030.

There is also a lot of confusion on this bill:

1. It doesn't go into effect in 2030. It goes into effect when 75% of cars in Washington are paying a mileage tax instead of gas tax. Oregon is furthest along with a mileage tax and our plan is to start requiring new vehicles sold in 2027 to pay per mile.
2. It doesn't ban ICE cars in 2030. It bans the sale of NEW ICE cars in 2030.
3. It only applies to vehicle 10,000 lbs GVW and under. You could still buy a gas Ford F250.
4. It applies to 4 AND 3 wheel vehicles. No trike loophole for this bill.

[freebeard]

So 5 ton trikes good to go?

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Ecky

If there were more places to charge, a majority of chargers would not need to be nearly as fast - they could just be normal outlets. If I only had access to a 15 amp 120v outlet at work (~1500w @ 85% efficiency), that would still replace the range used to get there.

This is key. The goal should be greatly expanding Level 2 charging where people park their cars for long periods of time not super fast charging that tries to replace gas stations with charging stations.

Slow charging at off peaks times makes the conversion to EVs much easier and cheaper.