water injection = Higher Efficiency?

[Jyden]

Originally Posted by kirkerik

Hey Danmark! My fathers homeland!

How is the bond of H2O broken in an internal combustion engine? Is that how my truck seems to run better?

In other words how does the fog provide more oxygen?

For oen the air is more dense in foggy conditions, at least around here, where we have the most foggy conditions when cold air falls down / goes under the warmer.

Don't know how the H2O is broken, but water injection helps, esepcially on diesels.

Ever saw tractor pulling? They use a lot of water injection.

[kirkerik]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

Water vapor is LIGHTER than air, that's why clouds are UP in the sky, not on the ground. It is also why bad (cloudy & rainy) weather is associated with LOW atmospheric pressure (high water vapor in air) and good (clear & dry) weather is associated with HIGH atmospheric pressure (low water vapor in the air).

Right

But how does fog LP area help my truck or most other gas CE run better/smoother?

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by kirkerik

Right

But how does fog LP area help my truck or most other gas CE run better/smoother?

...look up:

1) "high latent heat of vaporization"
2) "flame temperature reduction"
3) "charge cooling due to water vaporization"
4) "slight increases in BMEP"
5) "Increasing humidity tends to enrichen A/F"

[George Tyler]

Originally Posted by drmiller100

.....

Thought experiment two. Imagine a 4 or 2 stroke engine, except it has superheated piston, and we have direct injection of liquid water. We inject the water at TDC.

Will this engine "run"????

There was an old engine design in "Model Engineer" magasine, maybe even before the 2nd world war... it had a head with a narrow gap between it and the top of the cylinder. the head had a step, so it sealed around the outside. The head was of finned construction and the fins were heated by a flame, just before TDC a drop of water was injected into the cylinder, and the close fitting piston forced the water into the slot where it instantly turned to steam, which then pressurizer the cylinder. there were many iseas like this in that magasine.

[Honda100]

I didn't bother reading all 26 pages, but just my experience. The only way I was able to get FE benefits from water injection was by increasing the compression ratio (of course not easy to do), advancing the timing, and then using the water injection to surpress the knock that would definitely occur with a 13:3:1 engine with timing at 27 BDC. I managed around 30-32 mpg from an original 25-27. Of course though, my car had water injection because it was a drag car, and the engine had a ridiculous compression ratio for the same reason. Anything but a fuel saver in purpose.

[gone-ot]

FWIW--WWII aircraft engines used water-methanol injection for short bursts of "combat" power above/beyond the engines' normal maxium HP rating...but that was ALL about emergengy POWER and nothing about FUEL economy.

[maxc]

Originally Posted by kirkerik

Thanks for the link but the vid was just 9 sec. long. I did see a few extra hoses

So is steam akin to the fog i was driving through? Please see previous post

What is that phenomonon?

No the steam is being injected @ about 450F or more.

Old Tele man said ( "Increasing humidity tends to enrichen A/F")
Water interfears with combustion. So the O2's pick up more uncombusted gases. So you may have the same mass flow of fuel at any one time, but less is being burnt.

[American Viking]

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

Actually the WW2 engines used water injection for emergency power situations, where boost was a high as two atmospheres or more. I think it went to 35 PSI boost, which at sea level meant the engine would blow up in a matter of minutes, if not seconds.
War Emergency Power settings were for emergencies only, like in a B17 where you had two engines shot out and you needed to clear the coastline in order to ditch.
Heard once about a B17 that skipped itself over the channel and just cleared the cliffs of Dover on one engine.

regards
Mech

The B29's in WWII flying from Tinian, in the Mariana Islands, to bomb Japan need Water injection not to make max power but as a substitute for loss of air cooling on takeoff.
See, in order for the B29's to takeoff with a fuel load and a full bomb load, they really needed a longer runway, but that was not possible
Instead, the pilots were instructed to completely close all the cowl cooling flaps along with some other procedures to minimize the drag. That essentially meant no cooling for the engines, which made them overheat, detonate and in many cases catch fire.
Remember those engines would just about overheat while taxing in the tropical temperatures and they would easily spend an hour running engines while waiting with a hundred other bombers waiting to takeoff.
So the procedure was to close all cooling flaps at the start of the takeoff run, switch on the water injection at the 'point of no return' threshold on the runway, push the throttles through the "war power" gates (sometimes called the 110% power setting) to the final stops, click the stopwatch and hopefully climb to sufficient altitude to open the cowlings up before you had engine fire or engine failures.
That's extreme abuse, but it was war.

[American Viking]

Well I'm already working on HHO boosting of combustion, but I'm also looking into Cold fog as well.
There are two ways to make cold fog,
1. Is use a ultrasonic cold mist vaporizer. These are touchy when it comes to the water quality used and what additives you can add to keep the water from freezing.
2. Is to use a nebulizer head, this can use tap water but will need an antifreeze additive and a continuous light duty compressor.

Both will require separate reservoirs, re-filling pumps, ducting (or piping) and power to make the "fog". Maybe even an arduino to manage the output via some kind of pulse width output.

[TexasCotton]

Really confused.
4 the following reason this thread about "water injection" started reading the thread and found the HHO crowd.
I am neither pro or con on HHO just not what I am looking for...............
Water injection aka circa 1975-1980 tech alchol/ water mix and then in vapor form is in fact what I am curious about. This was used in the decade pasts with some results and that is why you can by ebay kits in the 400-500 us dollar range with pump/tank/mister etc.
I am just curious how you tube connect on a 2004 toyota ......the old way was via egr tubes, evap lines with a tee..............