When is a hybrid a hybrid?

[NeilBlanchard]

I understand that you think this is the "rule", but combining two kinds of motors would pretty obviously a hybrid drive train. I don't agree with your opinion -- and that doesn't make me stupid.

Is a Honda Insight a hybrid? It cannot push the car with just the electric motor. And the electricity in the battery comes from the gasoline.

What is a series / serial hybrid? Are only parallel hybrids "real" hybrids by you definition? Or, only plugin hybrids are "real"? What is a mild hybrid compared to a full hybrid?

[dcb]

did you see the definition of a hybrid train i posted?

[NeilBlanchard]

This one?

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Is a Honda Insight a hybrid? It cannot push the car with just the electric motor. And the electricity in the battery comes from the gasoline.

Actually it can (at least if you have MIMA installed), though it's not a good idea to do it for very long. But you have the electric motor adding power at times, which isn't true of the diesel-electric train, where (once again) the electrics are just a transmission. Something that isn't true of the Insight, which would run just fine, if a bit sluggishly, without the electric motor.

[NeilBlanchard]

What is Ben Nelson's latest project car -- isn't it an EV with a very efficient electric drive train, with an efficient electric generator as a range extender? Isn't it a series hybrid? What if it didn't have any batteries -- why wouldn't it still be a series hybrid?

[dcb]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

This one?

No, the wikipedia entry for hybrid train. Where they take a regular train and add batteries and controller:
Hybrid train - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

What is Ben Nelson's latest project car -- isn't it an EV with a very efficient electric drive train, with an efficient electric generator as a range extender? Isn't it a series hybrid? What if it didn't have any batteries -- why wouldn't it still be a series hybrid?

Haven't seen that, but I'm assuming it's a Volt-like hybrid? If so, and you take the batteries out, you've turned it into a non-nybrid. In fact, the automotive equivalent of the diesel-electric locomotive, where the electrics are just replacing the transmission.

[NeilBlanchard]

With or without the batteries, it is still using two different motors in combination to move the car. Combination = hybrid.

Here's the Wikipedia definition of a hybrid electric car:

A hybrid electric vehicle (HEV) is a type of hybrid vehicle and electric vehicle which combines a conventional internal combustion engine (ICE) propulsion system with an electric propulsion system. The presence of the electric powertrain is intended to achieve either better fuel economy than a conventional vehicle, or better performance. A variety of types of HEV exist, and the degree to which they function as EVs varies as well.

[dcb]

you said a train was a hybrid, but in order to be a hybrid train it needs batteries and a controller, as the link clearly demonstrates. Please be a decent chap and correct that mistake before we plod along too much further.

If you have an electric motor without a battery then you don't have an electric propulsion system. If it needs a gas engine to run then it isn't an "electric propulsion system".

My car has a starter and the clutch interlock is disabled( I can actually drive a few blocks on the starter only) I don't go calling it a hybrid vehicle, especially since all that does is water down the term hybrid. Your definition is mislead and pretty much meaningless for efficiency discussions.

And yes the series train is nearly identical to a torque converter except that an engine runs a generator which powers a motor, instead of an engine running a pump that powers a turbine. And I am not about to call cars with torque converters "hybrid vehicles", in the year 2011.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

With or without the batteries, it is still using two different motors in combination to move the car. Combination = hybrid.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong... How many times do we have to explain this? There are two motors - an IC engine and a hydraulic motor - in any car with an automatic transmission. Two (or more) motors are not what makes a hybrid, otherwise twin-engine airplanes and locomotives & ships with more than one engine would be hybrids.

Maybe try a different way: draw a path of the power flow. If it's a single straight line from engine to wheels, even if it goes through a bunch of electrical, hydraulic, and mechanical transmissions, it's NOT A HYBRID.

As a matter of fact, this is exactly what your Wikipedia quote is saying:

...which combines a conventional internal combustion engine (ICE) propulsion system with an electric propulsion system.

The key here is "propulsion system" (or powertrain). The diesel-electric locomotive, or the AT car, has only one SYSTEM, of which the electric or hydraulic transmission is a part.