When is a hybrid a hybrid?

[bgd73]

so a hybrid is two sources, two powers.

if an engine used the turbo to spin a gyro, then let the gyro carry momentum...would it be a hybrid...
no? because the engine fed the other source?
don't know. But I can see where this is headed. Especially from asian marketing tactics. It even corrupted american...


the 20 gauge wheel well has a plastic cover.. noone will know it is not 18.

add that to fuel mileage and add that to hidden danger. one is the out loud selling point.

[Clev]

Originally Posted by bgd73

so a hybrid is two sources, two powers.

if an engine used the turbo to spin a gyro, then let the gyro carry momentum...would it be a hybrid...
no? because the engine fed the other source?

In that case, it's still gasoline as the power source. Now add a plug-in electric motor that lets you spin up the gyro in your garage...

[NeilBlanchard]

A (non-plugin) Prius is a hybrid, right? Honda Insight and Civic are also hybrids, I'm fairly certain. They run only on gasoline -- all the electricity came from gasoline; or from regenerative braking which came from gasoline.

I think a hybrid is any vehicle that combines (hybridizes) two types of power sources. Two separate *energy* sources is possible with a hybrid, but using just one energy source doesn't exclude it from being a hybrid.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

...but using just one energy source doesn't exclude it from being a hybrid.

What makes it a hybrid is that some of the energy produced by the engine is either stored directly (before going to the wheels) or recaptured from regenerative braking, and used to drive the wheels at a later time.

So you see the fundamental difference between that and e.g. a diesel electric or hydraulic drive (or even mechanical transmission), where the energy may jump through various hoops on its way from engine to wheels, but at any instant there's a 1:1 (minus friction) relationship between what's produced and what's driving the wheels?

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

What makes it a hybrid is that some of the energy produced by the engine is either stored directly (before going to the wheels) or recaptured from regenerative braking, and used to drive the wheels at a later time.

Why does the threshold of a hybrid drivetrain involved energy storage? Why wouldn't two different types of motors be "enough" to be considered a hybrid?

[UFO]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

A (non-plugin) Prius is a hybrid, right? Honda Insight and Civic are also hybrids, I'm fairly certain. They run only on gasoline -- all the electricity came from gasoline; or from regenerative braking which came from gasoline.

I think a hybrid is any vehicle that combines (hybridizes) two types of power sources. Two separate *energy* sources is possible with a hybrid, but using just one energy source doesn't exclude it from being a hybrid.

This makes the most sense to me.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Why does the threshold of a hybrid drivetrain involved energy storage? Why wouldn't two different types of motors be "enough" to be considered a hybrid?

A quick search indicates another qualifier is that each source of motive power must be able to power the vehicle independently. If a vehicle has a motor/engine w/ no energy storage for the motor then it wouldn't satisfy the whole motive power thing.

[IamIan]

My 2 bits is to look at the word hybrid in a larger context.

A Hybrid Plant ( Loganberry, Limequat )
A Hybrid Animal ( Donkey, Pomeranian dog ).
A Hybrid Insect ( Killer Bees ).
etc ... etc...

The term Hybrid is just combining two or more things into one thing.

The Hybrid will have some traits of each contributed thing.

From a vehicle perspective it could be many different kinds of Hybrid each is still a hybrid or a mix... Combinations of boats and cars are Hybrids ... combinations of cars and planes are Hybrids ... combinations of cars and houses are hybrids ... combinations of BEV and ICE are hybrids ... combinations of BEV and Bicycle are hybrids ... Combination Row Boat Sail Boat are Hybrids ... etc.

Different hybrids will have different pros and cons ... the application will determine how important the pros and cons are in the context of the intended application.

We use the term 'hybrid' consistently in this sense everywhere else ... and have for a long time ... only in recent years have people seemed to try to change what the term 'hybrid' means... I think a Hybrid Row Boat / Pogo stick would be pretty silly ... but it is still a hybrid silly or not , useful or not.

In this sense Hybrid Energy Source ( PHEV ) is different from Hybrid Drive Train , different from hybrid fuel type ( flex fuel ) ... etc... but both are still hybrids... the term Hybrid alone does not require any exclusive use of any one type of fuel ... the Honda IMA system is a Hybrid Drive train ... not a Hybrid fuel system, or a hybrid energy source ( PHEV ) ... a PHEV with no EV mode can still be a hybrid energy source or hybrid fuel source.

[user removed]

In my concept hydraulic hybrid, the basic vehicle is a non hybrid until the accumulator is added to the system which allows for energy demand leveling and power to be available from two sources, either directly from the engine, or directly from the accumulator with or without mutual contribution. Regenerative braking can be attributed to the original power source (fuel) be it electricity or other fuel types, separately or in combination.

It just seems to me like the tail wagging the dog to argue about whether a vehicle is a hybrid or not a hybrid, when the real concern should be it's overall efficiency, but then some people like to argue for the sake of an argument.

I have had some customers like that who debated and debated the potential solutions to a problem, while I just fixed the d#$% thing.

regards
Mech

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Why does the threshold of a hybrid drivetrain involved energy storage? Why wouldn't two different types of motors be "enough" to be considered a hybrid?

The difference is between a mechanism acting as a motor vs acting as a transmission - even if it's the same mechanism. So you could convert a standard non-hybrid diesel-electric locomotive into a hybrid by for instance adding some batteries and a controller, or (in principle, anyway) convert your Volt hybrid into a non-hybrid by taking out the battery, and using the gas engine to turn a generator which feeds directly to the electric motors that drive the wheels.

This seems so simple and, frankly, so blindingly obvious that I'm at a loss to see why you can't seem to understand it.