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View Poll Results: When will the Insight be beaten at its own game?
Before 2015 4 40.00%
2015-2020 1 10.00%
Not before 2020 3 30.00%
Never: the ICE will be extinct among thrifty passenger cars before then 2 20.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-01-2009, 10:28 PM   #1 (permalink)
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When will the 1G Insight finally be bested?

When do you think a major carmaker will finally release a car that beats the first-generation Insight's mpg? What do you think that car will be?

The 2011 CR-Z won't do it. The CR-Z is sporty, and will probably end up with some needlessly large power plant. Even if it ends up Insight-sized and Insight-shaped, and with a CR-Z HF powerplant, it'll still have a steel chassis, plus the weight penalty of 10 years of extra crash regs holding it back.

The 2014 Prius will surely be impressive, but unless Toyota comes out with a very small (iQ-based?), very aerodynamic (not iQ-based) dedicated hybrid, I don't think it will be sufficient.

An Aptera 2g or 2h would qualify, but I said major carmaker. So if they sell 50,000 of them a year, that would do it. Until then, it's in the same category as the 125mpg HyperRocket motorcycle.

When the driverless car gets approved for transporting humans on the highway (2025?), a one seat, "coffin on wheels" layout becomes attractive. That could easily get 200mpg at the kind of speeds we're accustomed to today.

Are there any other cars that look promising enough to beat the Insight at its own game?

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Old 09-01-2009, 10:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Never....if I have anything to do with it!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:32 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Opps

Since you excluded the Aptera - I just don't know.
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Old 09-01-2009, 11:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
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VW is supposed to be building a production version of its 1L car for 2010.
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Old 09-01-2009, 11:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Robert - great poll question!

I suspect: never. That's it, as far as high-efficiency internal combustion autos go, at least for the North American market.

(Assuming plug-in hybrids don't count.)

And as an aside, I don't buy the statement that crash protection necessarily means weight gains.

EDIT: both Mazda and Ford have publicly stated several times that they aim to trim a serious amount of weight from their vehicles - on the order of 10+%. Are their cars going to be 10% less safe? I don't think so.
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Old 09-01-2009, 11:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
VW is supposed to be building a production version of its 1L car for 2010.
I dismissed that one as greenwashing when I read it. I seriousy doubt we'll see it.

VW likely won't even put a diesel in the Polo they're considering bringing to North America - what does that say about their seriousness regarding efficiency?
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Old 09-01-2009, 11:47 PM   #7 (permalink)
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...a small diesel-powered Prius might get there, but will Toyota do it?
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:32 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
And as an aside, I don't buy the statement that crash protection necessarily means weight gains.
You know, I asked somewhere why cars are getting so heavy, bringing up the fact that a car which 10 years ago might have been 2500lbs has steadily grown to 2800lbs or so, and a lot of it was cited as being stiffer frames for, among other things, crash protection. It's odd that even Americans could build a 2300lb economy car in 1960 (the Falcon), when big was still the fashion, yet today we can't seem to get weight in check.
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Old 09-02-2009, 03:02 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
You know, I asked somewhere why cars are getting so heavy, bringing up the fact that a car which 10 years ago might have been 2500lbs has steadily grown to 2800lbs or so, and a lot of it was cited as being stiffer frames for, among other things, crash protection. It's odd that even Americans could build a 2300lb economy car in 1960 (the Falcon), when big was still the fashion, yet today we can't seem to get weight in check.
The brand new version of my 20 year old truck weighs a good 700 pounds more
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Old 09-02-2009, 03:25 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tele man View Post
...a small diesel-powered Prius might get there, but will Toyota do it?
If Toyota doesn't, then hopefully an ecomodder or two will!!

As for weight, it's not only the frame, but all of the electronic gizmos: power steering, power windows, power seats, BSI's, ECU's, huge speakers and subwoofers and CD changers, extra-large alternator and battery to power it all, etc. Also, more insulating material to make it quieter inside.

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