Why is Ethanol such a polarizing topic?

[Miller88]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

It has been quite a long time since I owned anything with a warranty!

That said, fuel systems have been ethanol resistant since 1989 so whatever I have from then to new enough to have a warranty, I wouldn't sweat any ethanol fills. The OEMs simply don't want to have their stealerships flooded with people crying about CELs, even though the CEL is simply saying "Oops, Mr. Computer has maxed out the fuel trim and Mr. O2 says it still isn't quite rich enough!"

But you've STILL ignored the aspect I was talking about. :/

Yes, that would be the cost per mile or cost per gallon or just plain cost.

That would do an excellent job of taking vehicles off the road up here. CEL will not pass inspection.

Doesn't it use more than a gallon of fossil fuel to produce a gallon of ethanol.

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by Miller88

That would do an excellent job of taking vehicles off the road up here. CEL will not pass inspection.

Doesn't it use more than a gallon of fossil fuel to produce a gallon of ethanol.

Nor, will it here in Tucson, one of the EPA "smog" sniffing centers within Arizona.

[roosterk0031]

Cobalt took over E60 before it gave a CEL, took it back down to E50 and it went away.

[IamIan]

Originally Posted by Miller88

Doesn't it use more than a gallon of fossil fuel to produce a gallon of ethanol.

Although I read that same line being repeated over and over ... I don't see it lining up.

Sure there are different ways to produce ethanol... and they all are not the same.

Just a quick look at references on wikipedia lists:

US ---Corn Based = 30% more Ethanol Energy out than the sum of fossil fuel energy used to produce it.

Brazil --- SugarCane Based = 700% more ethanol energy out than the sum of fossil fuel energy used to produce it.

Various types of cellulosic ethonal production range from 100% more output to 3,500% more output , than the sum of fossil fuel used to produce it.

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by Miller88

That would do an excellent job of taking vehicles off the road up here. CEL will not pass inspection.

Doesn't it use more than a gallon of fossil fuel to produce a gallon of ethanol.

Are you serious?

Are the inspections random? No? Well then fill it with regular before you go. CEL goes off, "problem" solved.

That negative energy balance bullisht is about three decades old. Get with the program.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Miller88

Doesn't it use more than a gallon of fossil fuel to produce a gallon of ethanol.

With the sugarcane-based ethanol, more usual in Brazil, it takes about 1 gallon of fossil fuel to get 7 gallons of ethanol, altough the usage of ethanol in the process is increasing, turning the process more sustainable. For the corn-based ethanol, it's usually 1 gallon of fossil fuel for just 1,7 gallon of ethanol.

Originally Posted by RedDevil

I would not be surprised if engines that have EGR (which adds a lot of heat) generally handle ethanol blends better than engines that do not have EGR.

Older Opel engines used in Brazilian dedicated-ethanol and flexfuel cars didn't have the EGR, but I'm not sure about the locally-available flexfuel versions of the Ecotec.

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

True in "short-duration" operation for diesels (CI), but not under continued long-duration operation because gasoline/alcohol 'solvent' is damaging to injectors, because the injectors rely on diesel for lubrication...which E85 lacks. The new gasoline direct-injection (GDI, SIDI, etc.) engines will 'test' the quality & durability of new piezo-injectors with gasoline AND E85.

E85 is not used in Diesel engines, only Brazilian standard E96h and Swedish E95 which uses a specifically-developed additive to increase lubricity AND the cetane rating, altough the most critical point is still the lubricity. With newer common-rail injections it's not so hard to overcome the lube issue, but with older mechanical-injection engines it was not unusual to use a sulphur-based additive in Brazil, which doesn't make so much sense.

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

I have only heard anecdotes of fuel injectors clogging due to Ethanol picking up crap from the fuel tank. But never outright failure of fuel injectors. Piezo injectors aren't used in everything. Ford is using cheaper units for their DI FFVs.

A radical switch to higher ethanol contents can eventually lead to clogging, but before any impurity reach a fuel injector there will be a clogged filter...

[roosterk0031]

Previous 2002 sububan got 15 mpg over 10,000 miles on E10, 12.5 on 8,800 miles on E85, unless my math is bad 16.666% less mpg with 24-25% less energy, don't have as much data to support it but the Impala is trending the same. (fuelly.com 2002 suburban, 2 different logs)

[RedDevil]

An excellent power source for distilling ethanol would be the sun.
Conventional solar boilers could heat up the mixture to near boiling. Mirrors could do the rest, or heaters driven by PV cells for better controllability.

A setup like that would use the suns energy more efficiently than plain PV cells would.
It would require far less fossil fuel to build too. Or biofuel. Or solar power. Or hamster mills.
We really should no longer calculate the effort to build something by fossil fuel as if that is the only way. I might use the hamster mill factor from now on.

[freebeard]

Bounce in time to the beat. Hey—you don't even have to move your feet.

Dipa dee dee dee dee do do
dee da dee dee do...

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Bounce in time to the beat. Hey—you don't even have to move your feet.

Dipa dee dee dee dee do do
dee da dee dee do...

Doing the "Congressional Waltz," are you?