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Old 10-05-2013, 07:13 AM   #191 (permalink)
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That's really tempting bait, and it is the Lounge...

But that's a subculture that grew up around a sample of an old Roger Miller riff. One of Internet's original memes. Around the time of gerbils and Richard Gere.

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Old 10-05-2013, 03:17 PM   #192 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller88 View Post
That would do an excellent job of taking vehicles off the road up here. CEL will not pass inspection.

Doesn't it use more than a gallon of fossil fuel to produce a gallon of ethanol.
Even FFVs Owner's manual recommends putting in Regular before taking it in for a service. No doubt it's the same for emissions testing. Regulations being what they are.

As for fossil fuel, note that this includes Natural Gas and Coal not just petroleum. Even the EPA states that every gallon of Ethanol reduces Petroleum consumption by 75%. When Ethanol is distilled it generates co-products. Where the myth occurs is that people assume or leave out(we'll assume it's accidentally) the co-products and suddenly Ethanol has a negative energy balance. This was true up until a few years ago when the energy balance became an issue. Distillation plants have improved their efficiency since then.

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Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
A radical switch to higher ethanol contents can eventually lead to clogging, but before any impurity reach a fuel injector there will be a clogged filter...
Exactly, but I still hear the line about Ethanol destroying/clogging fuel injectors. I have heard a few people suggest that Ethanol will eat through aluminum engines. I hope they know that Gasoline is corrosive too.
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Old 10-05-2013, 09:09 PM   #193 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allch Chcar View Post
Exactly, but I still hear the line about Ethanol destroying/clogging fuel injectors. I have heard a few people suggest that Ethanol will eat through aluminum engines. I hope they know that Gasoline is corrosive too.
Well, these guys along with others KNOW that E85 is corrosive to aluminum and said so in this 'Position Paper' on its use in boats:

www.nmma.org/assets/cabinets/Cabinet103/E20_Position_Paper.doc

When stainless steel (ss) tubing is used, the E85 problem is eliminated, but not every fuel system component is made of ss.
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Old 10-05-2013, 09:38 PM   #194 (permalink)
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Yes, bare aluminum is like mild steel. It's very prone to corrosion. Which is why aluminum is always coated with something like zinc to prevent corrosion.

SS isn't the only material safe with Ethanol and Gasoline. There are plastic that are compatible too.
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:18 PM   #195 (permalink)
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For what its worth I have been running E85 and E98 for eight years now without any issues in a 1990, 1991, 1993, Talon all stock tank lines and fuel system.

Also two Honda's a 1994 and a 1992 Civic. Same deal no issues.
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Old 10-07-2013, 09:44 PM   #196 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgfpro View Post
For what its worth I have been running E85 and E98 for eight years now without any issues in a 1990, 1991, 1993, Talon all stock tank lines and fuel system.

Also two Honda's a 1994 and a 1992 Civic. Same deal no issues.
Once a guy told me he heard a rumor about every engine fitted with an EFI as being ethanol-ready, altough I'd be still skeptical about an engine not fitted with an O2 sensor at the exhaust to do so...
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Old 10-07-2013, 10:52 PM   #197 (permalink)
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Once a guy told me he heard a rumor about every engine fitted with an EFI as being ethanol-ready, altough I'd be still skeptical about an engine not fitted with an O2 sensor at the exhaust to do so...
Sorry I don't understand your question???
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:08 AM   #198 (permalink)
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Yes, bare aluminum is like mild steel. It's very prone to corrosion. Which is why aluminum is always coated with something like zinc to prevent corrosion.
Say what? Steel might be, Aluminum alloys aren't.

Aluminum in the presence of Oxygen very quickly forms an oxidized layer on the surface. That oxididized layer is stable and is what protects the rest of the Aluminum from further corrosion. The layer may be made thicker and harder using an anodising process. That type of layer is resistant to the mild acid that is ethanol.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:51 AM   #199 (permalink)
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I think the main concern w/aluminum and flammable/critical liquids is fatigue (and resulting fire or braking hazard)

Fatigue limit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Other structural metals such as aluminium and copper, do not have a distinct limit and will eventually fail even from small stress amplitudes"
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Old 10-08-2013, 06:03 PM   #200 (permalink)
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I can think of numerous vehicles that use an Al. extrusion for the injector rail. Fatigue cracking is apparently not an issue there. It would be for the fuel lines.

While it is possible to buy Al. fuel line aftermarket, I don't know of any OEM use of it. Fatigue may be why.

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