Why you can't buy a high mpg car....

[Vman455]

Originally Posted by mcrews

james,
you example of the pt crusier wont sell.
1. made in mexico...so it's not 'made in detroit, which is the point of the thread.

Whoa, whoa, whoa--how are we differentiating "domestic" and "foreign" manufacturers in this thread? Remember your Voltaire: If you would speak with me, first define your terms. Toyota Tundras and Tacomas for the US market are made in Indiana and Texas, Camrys in Kentucky, and Corollas in Mississippi; Honda Civics are built in Indiana, Accords in Ohio, and minivans in Alabama; Mitsubishis in Illinois; Subarus in Indiana; Volkswagen Passats in Tennessee. Meanwhile, the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger and Challenger, as well as all of Chrysler's minivans, are built in Canada; some Ram trucks are made in Mexico; the Ford Edge and Flex and their Lincoln variants are made in Canada; the Chevrolet Equinox and Impala are also made in Canada, and the HHR in Mexico. So, if we are defining specific models as domestic or not based on where they're built, then a lot of small, fuel-efficient cars are domestics. If not, then a model produced by a US-based manufacturer (like the PT Cruiser) is a domestic. Which is it?

Also, you got Fisker and Tesla mixed up: Fisker's manufacturing is based in Finland, Tesla's in California.

[niky]

Originally Posted by UltArc

WELL, in 2008, the ONLY two auto brands to turn a profit were MINI and Rolls Royce. Those sound like niche companies/brands...

2008 only worked out for MINI because fuel prices spiked. Honda's Fit increased in sales volume that year, too. Then after 2008, both the Fit and the MINI hardtop lost the sales numbesr they gained. MINI lost over 16% of sales volume gained in 2008 by 2009.

Originally Posted by jamesqf

True of any product. It may or may not become "cool" enough to gain market share, but on the other hand, if the manufacturers deliberately try to make a product uncool, that seems like a guarantee of failure.

Just as nobody really believes they're the bad guy in a fight, nobody tries to make their cars uncool. Remember the Dodge Neon? That was Dodge trying to be "cute". Mazda smiley grilles? Designed to be aesthetically pleasing. The Spark, again? Chevrolet asked their customers directly which design they thought was the best. In the end, the concept may be attractive, but when it comes time for execution, once the bean-counters have pared it down so the car won't cost too much for the target market, the end-result isn't.

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Are you serious, or trying to put me on? I find it hard to believe that it would be considered cool. Around here it's the vehicle of choice for the sort of people who buy homes on a golf course while waiting for their Alzheimer's to become fully developed.

Were you in the market for a luxury SUV at the time? No? Were those old geezers in the market? Yes. Did they think it was cool? Hell, yes. Thus, it sold. Like I said, you can't manufacture coolness. It just happens. What you or I define as cool isn't always what sells. What counts is the opinions of the (again, irrational, impulsive) people spending the money to buy brand new. Which is why the big, heavy and plasticky 300C sold like hotcakes and the Pontiac GTO is dead. And why you don't get that diesel station wagon with a stick in the United States...

Originally Posted by jamesqf

And if it's profitable in Europe, it's not that hard to tweak a basic design to meet US standards.

Tell that to the Ford Contour. In Europe, you can get 3-series with a 1.6 liter engine, and 5-series with a 2.0. The Fiesta starts out at 1.2. The Spark gets the economical 1.0 there, unlike the gutless wonder of a 1.2 under the hood of the US Spark. (I've driven both. By the clock, the 1.2 is faster, but in real-world use, the huge lack of low-end power means the 1.0 is just as easy to use).

Until and unless gas prices are $2 more than they are now, it's not going to happen. And thanks to Canadian tar sands, US oil prices (WTI now hovering around $85, Brent is still flirting with $100 after Iran and Norway threw fits) are going to stay lower than everywhere else for a long while. And with the elections coming up, no one is going to risk losing the vote by suggesting additional gas taxes.