Why you can't buy a high mpg car....

[niky]

Profitable, but it won't translate to widespread availability or sales. Like I posted, MINIs sales numbers are relatively small, and other fashionable small cars, like the SMART and Fiat 500, can't replicate this success in the US.

It's not that makers market them as cheap. Have you seen Fit ads? They're pretty nifty, The Spark had that billion dollar ad called "Transformers 2", and the much touted Internet poll to choose it's styling. The problem is "cool" is not something you can successfully manufacture all of the time... Hence the Escalade. That suffered from spontaneous coolness. Cadillac's marketing had nothing to do with it.

Still, it's a profitable niche in Europe. The Opel ADAM, which I think I mentioned, is debuting at Paris. Based on the same platform as the Spark and Sonic, but in three door, like the MINI... and like the MINI, it'll get powerful engines (up to the turbo 1.4), lots of luxuries (up to 18" wheels), and a relatively big price tag for the size.

[Grant-53]

We forget that a Chevy Impala V6 that gets 32 mpg is considered a high mileage car by most Americans. Since most cars have a 400 mile per tank cruise range I ask myself what kind of vehicle am I willing to drive for 3 to 4 hours a day. Maybe instead of ecobox cars we should be thinking of longer wheelbase streamliners.

[UltArc]

Originally Posted by Grant-53

We forget that a Chevy Impala V6 that gets 32 mpg is considered a high mileage car by most Americans. Since most cars have a 400 mile per tank cruise range I ask myself what kind of vehicle am I willing to drive for 3 to 4 hours a day. Maybe instead of ecobox cars we should be thinking of longer wheelbase streamliners.

My wife drives a 2008 Ford Escape. 23+ mpg, with careless driving. Roof rack, and no mods.

She was T boned by another driver.

For over two weeks, she has had a 2011 Impala. Constantly listening to me complain about my Mustang and it's mileage, she has been trying to compete with the Impala. WITH hypermiling it, she managed her best tank at 22 mpg.

Now, I know she's not a pro, but how do you beat the puss out of a small SUV, not a CX5, and baby a saloon, and that happens?

She has just fallen more for Ford, and as much as I do like Ford, I think every company makes good and bad products.

But in the 2008 Fusion I had while my vehicle was being worked on, I kept the windows down. And AC on max cold. At max blow. Almost racing everywhere, terribly abusing this car as bad as possible. Over 32mpg.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! I just don't understand sometimes. It can't just be "better" products from Ford, Toyota, and Honda.

[mcrews]

Fuel Economy of 2011 Chevrolet Impala EPA MPG
MODEL City Comb Hwy Fuel Cost
2011 Chevrolet Impala 6 cyl, 3.9 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular Gas or E85
Gas 17 City 21 Combined 27 Highway

2011 Chevrolet Impala 6 cyl, 3.5 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular Gas or E85
Gas 19 City 23 Combined 29 Highway

Which one did she have?
Was that all freeway or combined on the tank?

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by niky

The problem is "cool" is not something you can successfully manufacture all of the time...

True of any product. It may or may not become "cool" enough to gain market share, but on the other hand, if the manufacturers deliberately try to make a product uncool, that seems like a guarantee of failure.

Hence the Escalade. That suffered from spontaneous coolness.

Are you serious, or trying to put me on? I find it hard to believe that it would be considered cool. Around here it's the vehicle of choice for the sort of people who buy homes on a golf course while waiting for their Alzheimer's to become fully developed.

Still, it's a profitable niche in Europe.

And if it's profitable in Europe, it's not that hard to tweak a basic design to meet US standards.

[mcrews]

james,
you example of the pt crusier wont sell.
1. made in mexico...so it's not 'made in detroit, which is the point of the thread.
2. was an entry level vehicle
3. was disconmtinued because of....low sales
4. also note: the dealer margin was very thin. which means that the retail msrp was as high as they could price it. which means cost to produce were pretty close to the invoice.
I would think that they needed to sell 100,000 units a yr to brak even. Sales in the last several yrs were below that.
So bottom line......baqd example

It was introduced for 2001 and has become Chrysler's entry-level vehicle (replacing the Plymouth Neon after the demise of the Plymouth marque), slotting below the Sebring in the lineup.


On January 15, 2009, Chrysler, fighting for its survival due to the 2008 Economic Crisis, announced the discontinuation of the PT Cruiser. Sales of the niche vehicle was down to 50,910 units in 2008 from a high of 144,717 back in 2001.
PS. It was built in Mexico.
They could NEVER have built it at a Detroit plant because union cost were too high.
PT Cruiser Trims
Base Touring Limited GT Base Convertible Touring Conver GT Convertible
MSRP $14,560 $16,905 $19,120 $23,770 $19,965 $23,730 $29,185
Invoice $13,750 $15,884 $17,899 $22,131 $19,142 $22,169 $27,133
Gas Mileage
As seen on the FuelEconomy.gov website, the City/Highway MPG averages are as follows:
MPG
22/29 21/27 19/26 21/26 19/26



Read more: Chrysler PT Cruiser - Wikicars
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution

[mcrews]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Because it refutes the claim that auto manufacturers can't profitably build and sell niche cars. As a matter of fact, when you get right down to it, ALL cars are niche cars.

?

you really need to stay on topic.
1. domestic built by big three.
2. you have said the Mini.......busted
3. Corvette..........busted
4. PT cruiser....see post.......busted.

You really dont understand business models, labor costs, brakeven points, etc.
Fisker is not profitable
Teslar got $500,000,000 from US and spent it in FINLAND and they are not profitable
And the Greman business model is not comperable to the US business model.
So you cant really say the the mini is profitable. ANd the chances are with only 5000 units a month (in us) the us division of Mini is NOT profitable.

[UltArc]

Originally Posted by mcrews

Fuel Economy of 2011 Chevrolet Impala EPA MPG
MODEL City Comb Hwy Fuel Cost
2011 Chevrolet Impala 6 cyl, 3.9 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular Gas or E85
Gas 17 City 21 Combined 27 Highway

2011 Chevrolet Impala 6 cyl, 3.5 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular Gas or E85
Gas 19 City 23 Combined 29 Highway

Which one did she have?
Was that all freeway or combined on the tank?

She only knew it was an LT, but that's a 3.5. It was almost all city. We don't really get too much highway, each. My highway each day is on, off, on, and off each way, she has none.

[UltArc]

Originally Posted by mcrews

you really need to stay on topic.
1. domestic built by big three.
2. you have said the Mini.......busted
3. Corvette..........busted
4. PT cruiser....see post.......busted.

You really dont understand business models, labor costs, brakeven points, etc.
Fisker is not profitable
Teslar got $500,000,000 from US and spent it in FINLAND and they are not profitable
And the Greman business model is not comperable to the US business model.
So you cant really say the the mini is profitable. ANd the chances are with only 5000 units a month (in us) the us division of Mini is NOT profitable.

WELL, in 2008, the ONLY two auto brands to turn a profit were MINI and Rolls Royce. Those sound like niche companies/brands...

I do agree with you mcrews, but when niches are built by large companies, they work. Like MINI. A BMW. They took a product they bought out, and started putting their pieces in over time. So it works.

Now, when you decide to just start up a niche, it's a little different. Like Fisker. I mean, Tesla had The Toyota/Lotus group hardcore backing it, so it was easier, but to my knowledge, Fisker is out in the cold trying to make it alone.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by mcrews

you really need to stay on topic.
1. domestic built by big three.
2. you have said the Mini.......busted
3. Corvette..........busted
4. PT cruiser....see post.......busted.

No offense but at what point would you consider a car actually domestic?

I work at an auto factory (not big 3), industry wide domestic content has very very low and has been since the late 70's. I will also state that occasionally the actual amount of american labor and components in vehicles finished up overseas is sometimes higher than those mopped up here.

AKA the Corvette likely has as much domestic content as for example a GM Sierra which is probably sub 31% excluding this labor you speak of.

Where do I get 31%? The 80% domestically sourced components claim I see floating around includes parts that are made from foreign material but in the
USA. (look back far enough and it probably is all that way)

I think there are a lot of fine lines that will make it very difficult to objectively determine if a US produced product actually has more US labor/content than a US produced product that is mopped up "elsewhere"

Cheers
Ryan