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Old 09-20-2018, 06:09 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
How many birds die from pollution? Mercury poisoning kills a lot of fish - and ask how people feel about coal ash in the area affected by Florence.

Climate change is already costing us billions and billions and billions. Fossil fuel pollution and water contamination are killing 10's of thousands of people each and every year - in the US; and many more around the world.
Try turning them off.
I expect up to a 50% die off with in 3 months with no power, after the next Carrington event or equivalent knocks out power to the entirety of North America.

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Old 09-20-2018, 06:10 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Peak in CA and other hot climates is more like 7pm. Doesn't NM have large cooling requirements around that time?
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Old 09-20-2018, 06:18 PM   #113 (permalink)
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That is the big hang up with doing any of this. We will need literally 300 Million 14-50 electrical plugs installed. Everywhere. So that the 275 Million cars and light trucks that we just converted to electric, just in the USA, can be made to charge anytime, anywhere. That they happen to be whenever there is an abundance of electricity to soak up.
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Again, Scale. Once you start to add things up you realize the futility of clinging to the belief that we can keep the same level of Western civilization up after oil availability tips over the top in 20 years driving the price out of reach of the middle class.
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Old 09-20-2018, 07:36 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Old 09-20-2018, 07:37 PM   #115 (permalink)
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I prefer 6-20 for my 3.8kw and 2.9kw charger.

I would have to see the load profile to know for sure when peak consumption is.
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Old 09-20-2018, 07:45 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler
Again, Scale. Once you start to add things up you realize the futility of clinging to the belief that we can keep the same level of Western civilization up after oil availability tips over the top in 20 years driving the price out of reach of the middle class.
The only acceptable solution is to rise above the [current] level of Western civilization. Without, of course, throwing the baby out with the dirty, dirty bathwater.

The was the whole point of R. B. Fuller's Design Science Revolution. New technical artifacts are required of course, but a large part of it takes place between the ears of what I've come to learn are Non Player characters. AKA normies.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cat+vs+win...ll&t=h_&ia=web

Why is a dust-print of a bird on the outside of an office window funny, but a windmill is not?
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:27 AM   #117 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Try turning them off.
I expect up to a 50% die off with in 3 months with no power, after the next Carrington event or equivalent knocks out power to the entirety of North America.
Costa Rica had a long power out, up to a year in some places. Many people died during or shortly after the storm and some of those deaths may be related to a lack of power. But nowhere near 50%, or even 0.05 % for that matter.
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:21 AM   #118 (permalink)
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The difference between Costa Rica and an entire north American grid down situation is:
No help will be coming. Costa Rica got help from the US and their neighbors.
Evacuating won't work, same situation everywhere. In Costa Rica people could evac to Nicaragua or Panama.
Costa Rica is tiny, only 5 million people. The US has some cities bigger than that.
Costa Rica is a pretty rough place, these people aren't going to just die with out air conditioning in summer time like some people in western Europe and the United States.
A Carrington event could happen in the middle of winter, most people depend on electricity for home heating, even most propane, natural gas or fuel oil heaters require electrical ignition or forced air.
Plus with out electricity, natural gas infrastructure fails.

The vast majority of people don't have more than a few days worth of water on hand, less than 5 days of food on hand, no way to produce their own power, no way to boil water with out gas or electric.
With out power that 5 days worth of food drops to 1 or 2, maybe 3 when everything in the fridge goes bad and no way to cook anything.

So no food, no clean water for months, what is the only logical outcome to this scenario?
What is going to feed and water all these people?
Divine intervention?
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2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.

Last edited by oil pan 4; 09-21-2018 at 04:40 AM..
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:44 AM   #119 (permalink)
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That's assuming everyone keeps staring at their fridge for months instead of searching for alternatives, working to restore power in key areas, eating canned food, etc.

A lot of food that gets shipped frozen can be canned as well. People like their food 'fresh', but would take canned or dried if the alternative is none.

As long as there is stuff that burns people can cook.
People are inventive, especially in times of adversity. Not everybody has proper hiking skills, but once that is needed they learn from others that do.

I really don't see the problem.
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:13 AM   #120 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
The difference between Costa Rica and an entire north American grid down situation is:
...
Plus with out electricity, natural gas infrastructure fails.
I don't disagree with the rest of the post

But our natural gas infrastructure in Saskatchewan has a few compressors that run off the natural gas that they are pushing through the pipeline. The electric stations are set up to bypass when the power goes out.

With our reserves of natural gas (it is stored in caverns around the province) and no industrial customers online ... my 8 kW generator at home should run for years.

My electric car conversion would get a MASSIVE bump in priority ... I might be able to drive to the nearest store to finish up looting after everyone else runs out of gas.

We'd still have no food or water .. but we wouldn't freeze!

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