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Old 11-11-2014, 06:30 PM   #1 (permalink)
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World oil price depends on cheaper and more efficient tractor-trailers for Fracking?

I heard that there's a huge (sometimes unfilled) demand for truck drivers because of the recently increased fracking oil production in the US.
I heard too many people must drive a semi because they can't find a decently paying job in their areas even with their (worthless) college degrees. Of course there's nothing wrong with it as any honest job is loable and dignifying.

So even tough they are building more and more pipelines they still need lots of trucks.
Fracking needs lots of water and chemicals that usually can't be transported in pipelines.

So Does world oil price ultimately depends a lot on big rigs?
Would a drivers strike destabilize the American Fracking industry?
Would a lot of (foreign) guest worker visas prevent that from happening?

Getting off politics to get back on technical stuff
Are more road trains coming?
Road train - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


AFAIK American fracked oil is light so there might not be enough nationally produced Diesel oil to power so many trucks.

Would a road train running on homegrown (and maybe also subsidized ) E85 or even M85 Methanol85 be competitive with standard semi trailers?
Methanol fuel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course E85 or M85 fuel consumption is much higher than in Diesel engines but maybe road-trains allow less overall consumption per payload pound allowing a break even?
Road trains also requires less (strike prone) drivers.

E85 and M85 engines are much quieter and fumes are much better smelling than those in Diesels.
Small communities in Fracking areas are already complaining of load noise and smelly Diesel fumes.

Foreign drivers in conventional road trains might suggest disaster but maybe new computer technology would help, i.e. allowing trailer wheels to steer?
Lane keeping technology might be already available as Google self driven cars in California stay within their lanes pretty well.

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Old 11-11-2014, 07:55 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It's weird how well Warren Buffett's railroads are doing along the line where the Keystone XL pipeline would be built. Thanks to the guy he paid billions to get elected and his one man blocking show. So you think Buffett would allow a truck version of competition to his bank account? Maybe in 2 years.
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Old 11-11-2014, 11:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'll just answer this much.

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Originally Posted by Big time View Post

So Does world oil price ultimately depends a lot on big rigs?
No, it does not. Oil pricing is dependent on the balance between market needs and production levels. Oil exploration and extraction start up is still more costly than the simple exercise of moving the product and some of it's logistical support needs.

With that said, the rest is a moot point.
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Old 11-11-2014, 11:31 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Rail based transport is about as efficient as you can get.

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Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
It's weird how well Warren Buffett's railroads are doing along the line where the Keystone XL pipeline would be built. Thanks to the guy he paid billions to get elected and his one man blocking show. So you think Buffett would allow a truck version of competition to his bank account? Maybe in 2 years.
It has been presented on this forum and others to be so. Road Trains pose no threat to bulk cargo carriers such as trains. They do provide lower cost of transport for consumables which need tighter time to market than what trains can provide. I like my Washington Apples nice and fresh down here in San Diego.

The Keystone pipeline would certainly be the most effective at moving liquids. For liquids, nothing beats a pipe.

Last edited by RustyLugNut; 11-11-2014 at 11:34 PM.. Reason: Addition.
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Old 11-11-2014, 11:58 PM   #5 (permalink)
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It's all competition however things are moved. Trucks may not be a threat to the railroad's very existence (at least right now) but they certainly take away a piece of the pie. The average citizen benefits from this competition, and maybe some day some of the players will end up out of the picture. 150 years ago everything was transported by animal, who knows what things will look like 150 years from now.

Getting the government involved always helps a select few, like the cronies who fund their election, at the expense of everyone else.
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Old 11-12-2014, 01:47 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Let me get this straight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
It's all competition however things are moved. Trucks may not be a threat to the railroad's very existence (at least right now) but they certainly take away a piece of the pie. The average citizen benefits from this competition, and maybe some day some of the players will end up out of the picture. 150 years ago everything was transported by animal, who knows what things will look like 150 years from now.

Getting the government involved always helps a select few, like the cronies who fund their election, at the expense of everyone else.
You are implying the Buffet owned railroad is doing well because it has no competition from a pipeline or road trains?

This is a classic study from a class in industrial economics.

You need to look at what the trains are carrying now and what they will lose if the pipeline goes through and the road trains become ubiquitous.
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Old 11-12-2014, 12:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
No, it does not. Oil pricing is dependent on the balance between market needs and production levels. Oil exploration and extraction start up is still more costly than the simple exercise of moving the product and some of it's logistical support needs.

With that said, the rest is a moot point.
What about the (nasty) chemicals they use in fracking?

I know for a fact they are transported by truck. At least by truck from the nearest train station.
Also waste chemicals are also truck driven to the nearest recycling plant or even the nearest train station.
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Old 11-12-2014, 12:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
You are implying the Buffet owned railroad is doing well because it has no competition from a pipeline or road trains?

This is a classic study from a class in industrial economics.

You need to look at what the trains are carrying now and what they will lose if the pipeline goes through and the road trains become ubiquitous.
They are carrying tens of thousands of cars full of crude. He is also in the business of making crude oil tanker cars and has more customers then supply. Then he has other loads besides oil jacking up their freight bids just to try and get on a train. You don't need a college class to see he's greatly benifiting from stopping the pipeline.
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Old 11-12-2014, 01:10 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Farmers are having problems getting their goods hauled by train because the railroads have made oil their priority.
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Old 11-12-2014, 01:29 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big time View Post
AFAIK American fracked oil is light so there might not be enough nationally produced Diesel oil to power so many trucks.
Most of our locally generated crude goes overseas, more stays in state than about 6 years ago but the actual amount processed here that is our own crude is a very small percentage indeed.

Hence the real reason behind the reasoning listed below, our crude is exported to be re-imported or is exported for sale to canada and mexico.

http://www.aspeninstitute.org/sites/...port_Ban_0.pdf

That said there are various ways around that ban anyway.

The unfilled demand for truck drivers is because they usually want YOU to own the semi and pay you only miles and require you to own a very specific semi

Meaning you likely can't actually make any money after you fullfill their requirements.

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