The world's largest auto market has a way of dictating the issue.

[sendler]

All of the big cities in China have horendous air quality. And they are the biggest emerging car market. The last thing they need is another source of air pollution right in the cities adding to the problem. So it it is easy to see why they are motivated to ban ICE vehicles strictly on air quality. It doesn't have to be a devious investment scheme or world monopoly plan. Just an opportunity to skip one step in the automotive evolution since the vast majority there have yet to buy their first car. Similar to the way wireless communication has skipped hanging wires to landline phones in developing countries.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by sendler

All of the big cities in China have horendous air quality. And they are the biggest emerging car market. The last thing they need is another source of air pollution right in the cities adding to the problem. So it it is easy to see why they are motivated to ban ICE vehicles strictly on air quality. It doesn't have to be a devious investment scheme or world monopoly plan. Just an opportunity to skip one step in the automotive evolution since the vast majority there have yet to buy their first car. Similar to the way wireless communication has skipped hanging wires to landline phones in developing countries.

I don't think they care about the air quality, if anything they like it as it keeps people from getting old. Otherwise they would be making old people into Soylent Green or something.
I think developing countries skipped landlines because of cost, not because it's better or cleaner technology. If you don't already have the lines it just costs more to add them then cell towers. Cost will always be the driver in developing countries.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

I think developing countries skipped landlines because of cost

Not sure why you would think China doesn't care about the poor air quality in it's major cities. It seems to me that they have improved air quality high on their agenda. The cost of cell towers versus land lines in developing countries may cheaper or it may be because of the vast capability advantages of cell towers. But the fact is that for all reasons involved, they skipped an obsolete technology. So these countires are fortunate to have not wasted resources on them. The cost of dangerous air quality in health terms is driving China to try to skip the obsolete ICE car as it gets ready to sell 200 Million cars to it's emerging middle class.

[freebeard]

China has been working a long time at both controlling emissions and curbing energy dependency. Once hostile to Western-imposed environmental regulations, they've made great headway into curbing pollution and investing in alternative energy... the Three Gorges Dam, their massive solar panel manufacturing concerns...

Unlike the current US government, they're playing the long game. Shale gas doesn't last forever...

There does seem to have been a change of attitude.

So, better than the Paris Awards Accords?

[Daschicken]

Hearing about all these countries proposing ban to ICE's makes me depressed. I wonder when the U.S. is going to announce such a plan. I just hope motorcycles are excluded.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

...if anything they like it as it keeps people from getting old.

That's pretty dark.

Banning new sales is less onerous than exclusion zones in inner cities. There is an almost bottomless pit of used vehicles in the USofA. You can still get pretty good deals on 1950s models.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by sendler

The cost of cell towers versus land lines in developing countries may cheaper or it may be because of the vast capability advantages of cell towers. But the fact is that for all reasons involved, they skipped an obsolete technology. So these countires are fortunate to have not wasted resources on them.

Cell towers don't give you high speed internet or electricity. If they run polls or trenches they will run both power and phone, cable, or fiber as well. The cell towers are just cheap and easy. The people will want those "obsolete" technologies, and as soon as they can afford to pay enough to make it profitable, companies will put them in also. Ironically I must live somewhere lower than 3rd world as everyday I am without cell coverage on my mail route and I'm a "city carrier". Good thing with all the modern tracking done on our fleets nowadays, supervisors actually have to get off their butts if they want to know what I'm doing all day LOL!

I'm probably a bit pessimistic about China actually caring about their people but I am old enough to remember them mobilizing with deadly force 300,000 heavily armed and trained troops against their own unarmed citizens. I also understand how the largest and fastest aging population on the planet is going to be impossible to ignore. Last time they ran the army against college kids and workers, next time it will be some poor dude with alzheimer's stumbling around in front of a tank not even knowing he's leading a revolution.

[freebeard]

Great Leap Forward, eh?

To quote Stephan Molyneux, "I'm trying to have hope and you're not helping."

Anyway, it was R. Buckminster Fuller that talked about 'ephemeralization' and 'tracked to trackless, wired to wireless'. And here we are today.

[slowmover]

The Chinese have passenger train service. Chinese roads don't cover the continent. Cars are local or regional. Easier to squeeze out ICE.

Had we made the same decision about train service circa 1946, and disallowed urban sprawl, cars wouldn't mean much here.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by slowmover

The Chinese have passenger train service. Chinese roads don't cover the continent. Cars are local or regional. Easier to squeeze out ICE.

Had we made the same decision about train service circa 1946, and disallowed urban sprawl, cars wouldn't mean much here.

I have long said nothing has done more for real freedom in the USA than our roads, highways, and private automobiles, affordable and accessible to everyone. You can say people vote with their feet but in reality they vote with their wheels.