Nissan Leaf

[P-hack]

Originally Posted by sendler

Is that what you are really paying? Take the bottom line dollar amount of what you wrote the check for and divide it by the total kWh used.

there is a flat $17/mo service fee, but I'm already paying that just to keep the lights on, so I don't count it here. (I'd be paying that fixed amount even without the leaf)

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Of course this is the dash display, and the actual charge is higher consumption.

You are right, I need to be monitoring from the wall and/or accounting for charger inefficiencies somehow to do a proper cost comparison.

[P-hack]

fyi, wikipedia lists the 2011 leaf as having a cd of 0.28 with an area of 7.80 sq ft (3,401 lbs). CDA 2.184

For comparison it lists a 2004 prius as a cd of 0.26 and an area of 6.24 sq ft (2,890 lbs). CDA 1.6224 (~%75 of the leaf).

So there isn't a whole lot you can do about the weight or frontal area on the leaf short of a new body, rolling resistance is going to be a bit more of a factor, and the cd isn't too shabby, but aerocivic level mods (CD of 0.17) could extend higher speed range by maybe 60%, probably more like %50 with the increased RR.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by P-hack

there is a flat $17/mo service fee

Service fees, line fees and taxes can almost triple the rate of the "electricity". You are quoting the feel good cost of electricity that electric advocates love to do. Next bill you get, divide the total dollar amount by the kWh used to see what you are really paying.

[HiFlite]

Originally Posted by sendler

Service fees, line fees and taxes can almost triple the rate of the "electricity". You are quoting the feel good cost of electricity that electric advocates love to do. Next bill you get, divide the total dollar amount by the kWh used to see what you are really paying.

Assuming one's home already has grid electricity, the fixed fees are a fact of life. What counts is the incremental cost of the added electricity used by owning an electric car. Otherwise to be fair, the extra tax one pays to subsidize the oil industry directly as well as to pay the huge cost for the constant wars in the middle east should also be added to the $/gallon of gasoline used.

[P-hack]

Originally Posted by sendler

Next bill you get, divide the total dollar amount by the kWh used to see what you are really paying.

I know what I'm really paying, ~17 month for access and $0.10 per kwh.

[Astro]

Originally Posted by sendler

Service fees, line fees and taxes can almost triple the rate of the "electricity". You are quoting the feel good cost of electricity that electric advocates love to do. Next bill you get, divide the total dollar amount by the kWh used to see what you are really paying.

Because gasoline advocates would never quote the feel good cost of oil.
They always include the cost of war, transport, refining and pollution in all their figures.

Electricity is cheap, uses an existing distribution network to deliver the energy to your front door and gets less polluting every day.
How many competing schemes could say the same?

[Cobb]

Ive never seen someone being able to have their cake and eat it too. For example when I got my 2nd gen insight the idea of saving fuel did cross my mind of all the reasons it was purchased. I didnt buy it just for that nor did I count my eggs before they hatch. Although the dealer doesnt have a program that requires you to bring the car in for service every 5 thousand miles at 50 bucks a visit I find the cvt and engine need service every 10 thousand miles and its about 100 bucks.

Ive already investigated a Leaf. The power company rep said they can run a pole just for the charger, but I had to pay a second account. The electrician said our box or home wont support a 220 volt or a 120 amp circuit and need a new electrical box. My room mate said no electrical box upgrade. So Ill have to have a pole, box and second service and there goes the potential savings of going EV over gasoline unless gas pops up to like 5 or 7.50 a gallon.

[Astro]

Originally Posted by Cobb

...My room mate said no electrical box upgrade. So Ill have to have a pole, box and second service and there goes the potential savings of going EV over gasoline unless gas pops up to like 5 or 7.50 a gallon.

That is not so good.
But at least it is just an issue with your room mate that may be able to be resolved.
Is the issue the cost/inconvenience of the electrical box upgrade or the EV's consumption being on a shared account?
If it is the consumption then adding a private kWh meter to the EV's circuit may help. And adding the meter during an electrical box upgrade should be really cheap.
Something like this 230V 60Hz 20A to 100A Single Phase DIN Rail Type Kilowatt Hour kWh Meter | eBay (or one suitable to your chargers amperage) should be able to be installed during the upgrade. It only takes a few minutes for the electrician to install it to monitor the EV charging circuit.

We are in the transition period between ICE and EV's. There will be loads of issues that crop up, both for individuals and for the larger community.
But one thing is for sure, things will change.

Where i live just about every new house sold has solar panels (electricity and/or water) installed on the roof. Having solar panels was considered an eccentricity a dozen years ago yet now it is a value added feature used to sell homes. I don't think it will be long before new homes have the garages pre-wired for EV charging. It is very low cost to run the extra circuit when building a house and it makes a very good selling point. What other cheapish feature can the builder add to a garage to make it seem modern and special?
With charging facilities all ready to go in your garage it would seem like a waste not to use them.
Also, once it becomes expected that a full featured home has charging facilities then you will start to see existing homes installing charging facilities. Especially rented houses where the owner is trying to attract a higher paying renter and make their house stand out from all the others.

[P-hack]

It's no panacea, but the price was right on a used 2012, and given all my trips are local I don't "really" need more than the 120v charger. Even at oddly low gas prices I will probably save %50 on vehicle energy costs, the ICE rarely gets a chance to warm up.

Though I do intend to tap into a 240v circuit soon, just because I have 240 to the house, and charging efficiency bumps up to about %90 from %78.

protip, shift to reverse to get to neutral faster if going above 7mph.

[user removed]

My garage is already wired for 220 (240?-nuke plant). My problem is counting the beans. With a sub $1k car (including repairs and DMV fees) laughable property taxes, stupid low inusrance and 6.8 cents a mile for fuel currently, the Sentra can not be touched by any vehicle. It's not even close. If I drove it to the crusher today, it's still not even close.

You're electricity cost is the amount used divided into the cost. Any other method of calculation, is just incorrect. I don't discount the volume of fuel I put into my vehicles because part of the cost is taxes. It reminds me of the the Benz that was reporting 1200MPG in a fuel log due to free WVO.

Does the source of liquid fuel affect the consumption? Of course not. Consumption is measured by volume, not source or cost.

I think electricity here is about 12 cents per KWH average. Our consumption will vary from this years low of 592 to al all time high of over 3k during an especially brutal January almost 10 years ago.

When you consider a Leaf (I did) and ignore the total cost of ownership, You're only fooling yourself. Even without financing cost, taxes, insurance, and depreciation costs are staggering.

Just be honest, you are willing to spend significantly more to be among the first to go fossil fuel free. That's admirable in itself, but mybe just not practical for those who have lesser means and more limited incomes.

regards
mech