2023 Toyota Prius - WOW!

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by JSH

So pretty much better in every way and Prime was slightly cheaper to buy after factoring in the $2,500 tax credit. Yet the regular Prius outsold the Prime 5:1.

Were the sales supply constrained, or demand constrained?

Does seem crazy to pick the hybrid if the Prime is cheaper. The Prime was the 2nd highest selling plug-in vehicle in 2018, with only the Model 3 selling more, so it doesn't sound like an unpopular vehicle.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Were the sales supply constrained, or demand constrained?

Does seem crazy to pick the hybrid if the Prime is cheaper. The Prime was the 2nd highest selling plug-in vehicle in 2018, with only the Model 3 selling more, so it doesn't sound like an unpopular vehicle.

The Prime was the second most popular vehicle in an unpopular segment. 2018 was the best year ever for the Prime, it only sold 27K, and yet it was the second best selling vehicle in the segment.

I'd say the Prime was demand limited looking at the year over year sales. Sales go up and down until they fall off a cliff when the RAV4 Prime is released in 2019.

People do not understand PHEVs. They get hung up on the all-electric range instead of looking at the cost savings. US buyers also overwhelmingly look at purchase cost instead of total cost to own.

Hybrids are no different. There is no cost based reason to ever buy a 1.5T Honda Accord instead of the hybrid. The $2200 pays back quickly in fuel savings and the Hybrid is quicker and better equipped.

[Phase]

Originally Posted by JSH

Not according to the EPA ratings. The Prime does better both combined and highway even in gas only mode.

In real life would it do better cruising at 75 mph? Maybe. The Prime has a bit more weight to carry but it also has a more powerful motor so it can regen more and feed in more electric torque. It is probably a wash.

The Prime is also more powerful, quicker, stays in EV mode much easier, and the larger battery means that it will last longer with normal hybrid cycling. The Prime can also recapture MUCH more electricity with regen which is very handy if you live in mountainous areas. (That was a big downside to my two 2nd gen Prius - they would fill the battery and stop regen before I was even 1/4 of the way down a grade and then I had to switch over to engine braking mode to keep from burning up the brakes.

Subjectively the Prime was less ugly than the regular Prius.

So pretty much better in every way and Prime was slightly cheaper to buy after factoring in the $2,500 tax credit. Yet the regular Prius outsold the Prime 5:1.

(This is personalized to have 100% highway driving)

thats not the base model prius eco. the bare bones prius gets way better mpg than the luxury version

[Phase]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Were the sales supply constrained, or demand constrained?

Does seem crazy to pick the hybrid if the Prime is cheaper. The Prime was the 2nd highest selling plug-in vehicle in 2018, with only the Model 3 selling more, so it doesn't sound like an unpopular vehicle.

real question is why didnt anyone buy many plug in ioniq hybrids? better mpg than the prime, more horse power, cheaper, and looked better...

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Originally Posted by Phase

real question is why didnt anyone buy many plug in ioniq hybrids? better mpg than the prime, more horse power, cheaper, and looked better...

Historical reliability of Hyundai vs. Toyota.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by JSH

People do not understand PHEVs. They get hung up on the all-electric range instead of looking at the cost savings. US buyers also overwhelmingly look at purchase cost instead of total cost to own.

I figured public knowledge of EVs and PHEVs would have improved quite a lot in the last half-decade, and maybe it has, but I'm not getting that impression.

You think people are just bad a math, or can't be bothered to do math?

I really have a hard time understanding things from the typical consumer perspective as I'm not very influenced by opinion, and feel the need to find answers myself.

Even my wimpy Prius plug-in, if charged only once per day, would deliver 4,400 EV miles per year. That's not nothing. With 25 miles of EV range, I bet 2/3rd of my miles would be EV. At 40 miles of EV range, I think that goes up to 80%.

Originally Posted by Phase

real question is why didnt anyone buy many plug in ioniq hybrids? better mpg than the prime, more horse power, cheaper, and looked better...

Ioniq EV was on my radar. If I wanted an PHEV I suppose it would have been too. Everybody knows what a Prius is though, and hardly anyone could tell you what an Ioniq is, or who manufactures it.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Phase

thats not the base model prius eco. the bare bones prius gets way better mpg than the luxury version

I compare like trim to like trim. That is the only real way to see what you are for the extra money.

That said I didn't know seat back pockets, tonneau covers, a rear wiper, and a donut spare were "luxury" items.

The Eco and Prime have the same highway rating. Cost to drive 25 miles highlights (again set to 100% highway driving)

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I figured public knowledge of EVs and PHEVs would have improved quite a lot in the last half-decade, and maybe it has, but I'm not getting that impression.

You think people are just bad a math, or can't be bothered to do math?

I really have a hard time understanding things from the typical consumer perspective as I'm not very influenced by opinion, and feel the need to find answers myself.

Even my wimpy Prius plug-in, if charged only once per day, would deliver 4,400 EV miles per year. That's not nothing. With 25 miles of EV range, I bet 2/3rd of my miles would be EV. At 40 miles of EV range, I think that goes up to 80%.

Most people don't do math when buying a car. They go into a dealer with a price per month in their head that they are willing to pay - and then let the dealer do the math. It is all about the monthly payment and on a PHEV (or EV) that payment doesn't include the discount for the tax credit. (I think we will see more of both EVs and PHEVs sold when the tax credit becomes a point-of-sale rebate in 2024)

The typical person can't tell you how much they spend on gas let alone tell you the cost per mile to fuel their car. Less than 1/3rd of households have a budget or track spending by category.

[freebeard]

Reminds me: I should add up the grocery receipts from last month.

edit: $298.56

[Phase]

Originally Posted by JSH

I compare like trim to like trim. That is the only real way to see what you are for the extra money.

That said I didn't know seat back pockets, tonneau covers, a rear wiper, and a donut spare were "luxury" items.

The Eco and Prime have the same highway rating. Cost to drive 25 miles highlights (again set to 100% highway driving)

who needs a rear wiper when you have attached air flow? why do you think teslas dont have rear wipers?