Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-05-2015, 01:43 PM   #641 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 27,752
Thanks: 7,796
Thanked 8,597 Times in 7,080 Posts
Thanks. I stayed up all night one night making that. It was done for a thread about retractable boattails. The scalloped edge is deprecated, it was to be a self-inflating feature.

The cooling (intake on the sides, exhaust on the bottom) is uncompromised. There's no consideration of engine access in the model.

I was showing it for the connection between the Gothic arch and The Template. Here's a similar example, a double-walled inflatable on a variable-wheelbase tricycle:


  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 08-05-2015, 05:48 PM   #642 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,909
Thanks: 23,994
Thanked 7,227 Times in 4,654 Posts
what about

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
What about the rounded tail of the Schlorwagen/Volkhart-Saggita/Dymaxion compared to the sharp pointy object that it The Template? Better to truncate it like the Cobra Dayton coupe?
The Template sorta predicts the separation off the back of the Schl'o'rwagen

In the wind tunnel we see that the flow doesn't necessarily adhere to the back of the roofline

In the closeup we see how the flow is lost down the roofline.

Kamm would have us loft the roofline up to at least the Buchheim et al. contour and then chop it off if we wanted the same length.
For the Volkshart Saggita it's the same story

The flow separates just like the Beetle's,above the backlight.
The Dymaxion Car has a more correct roofline,but the nose is all wrong.Bucky let too much air have access to the underbody and nothing is done to shield the wheels

With the Cobra Daytona Coupe,they've angled the truncation which allows a torque moment to be produced from the low base pressure riding under and forward of the rear spoiler location,enhancing downforce at the sake of drag.
http://www.conceptcarz.com/images/Sh...-12-AI-a09.jpg
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
freebeard (08-05-2015)
Old 08-05-2015, 06:01 PM   #643 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,909
Thanks: 23,994
Thanked 7,227 Times in 4,654 Posts
winds

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyking View Post
Before I start the big trailer project, I want to prove out materials and methods on a trailer for the new beetle. Since it is foam and glass and a bit large, my concern is how it will do in winds. It will be very light when empty, and about 4' tall by 11' long by 5 1/2' wide.
I hope to follow the template accurately in profile, and have some of the body of revolution aspects of it, but the plan taper will be somewhat limited for practical purposes.
This is still by far the best shape to combat side winds and stay put behind the tractor, right? A light trailer plus side winds plus lift is a bad day.
The upper edge radii will be your friend in crosswinds and gusts.Make 'em as large as you can tolerate,like Airstream,Argosy,Casita,Scamp,etc..Without them,the trailer width would have to be 1.6X body height just to have flow attachment over the top in a violent side gust.This is the reason for many rollovers.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
CFECO (08-30-2015)
Old 08-05-2015, 10:22 PM   #644 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 27,752
Thanks: 7,796
Thanked 8,597 Times in 7,080 Posts
Figure 8.44 is very instructive.

The tricycle drawing started as an ellipsoid, but with a 'chin' added, like the B-17G. The drawing was done about 1972.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
aerohead (08-06-2015)
Old 08-29-2015, 04:25 PM   #645 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,909
Thanks: 23,994
Thanked 7,227 Times in 4,654 Posts
Template in the 'bucket'

Here is an effective fineness ratio drag table published by Hucho.It is correct for both streamline bodies of revolution and elliptical bodies.
Hucho's example was a 1966 VW Beetle 1600.
You see that the lowest drag available (Cd 0.04) occurs at the higher Reynolds number,at the intersection of L/D= 2.5.

If the body is shorter it experiences separation-induced pressure drag.
If the body is longer it experiences increased surface friction drag.
Either one increases profile drag.

She's right in the 'sweet spot.'
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/

Last edited by aerohead; 08-29-2015 at 04:27 PM.. Reason: correction
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
BamZipPow (08-29-2015)
Old 08-29-2015, 06:27 PM   #646 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 27,752
Thanks: 7,796
Thanked 8,597 Times in 7,080 Posts
I like that he uses the VW Beetle as a benchmark. It's relevant to my interest.

1.75/2.5=0.7. Assuming a 12' length, increasing the Beetle's fineness ratio to 2.5 would require a 5.14ft boattail. What is the included angle at the tip of the optimal body? I used 45°, as close enough to 2*22° in my experiment with redwood lath, and got a boattail length of 3ft.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 02:59 AM   #647 (permalink)
CFECO
 
CFECO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Vail, AZ.
Posts: 552

X-Car - '11 Homemade 2+2

Velbly1 - '17 Toyota Camery XSE
90 day: 29 mpg (US)

Velbly2 - '13 Toyota Tundra
90 day: 18.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 174
Thanked 60 Times in 56 Posts
Turn the body, 180 degree's, and use the back as the front. The later the year, the better the Flow.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 07:50 AM   #648 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
sendler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Posts: 2,935

Honda CBR250R FI Single - '11 Honda CBR250R
90 day: 105.14 mpg (US)

2001 Honda Insight stick - '01 Honda Insight manual
90 day: 60.68 mpg (US)

2009 Honda Fit auto - '09 Honda Fit Auto
90 day: 38.51 mpg (US)

PCX153 - '13 Honda PCX150
90 day: 104.48 mpg (US)

2015 Yamaha R3 - '15 Yamaha R3
90 day: 80.94 mpg (US)

Ninja650 - '19 Kawasaki Ninja 650
90 day: 72.57 mpg (US)
Thanks: 326
Thanked 1,315 Times in 968 Posts
There is some contradictory information between some of these charts. How is the round shape shown as the same cd as the airfoil at .09. You have posted other charts with the cd of a round rod much higher.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 01:33 PM   #649 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 27,752
Thanks: 7,796
Thanked 8,597 Times in 7,080 Posts
Quote:
Turn the body, 180 degree's, and use the back as the front. The later the year, the better the Flow.
How's the X-Car project coming along?
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
CFECO (08-30-2015)
Old 08-30-2015, 05:57 PM   #650 (permalink)
CFECO
 
CFECO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Vail, AZ.
Posts: 552

X-Car - '11 Homemade 2+2

Velbly1 - '17 Toyota Camery XSE
90 day: 29 mpg (US)

Velbly2 - '13 Toyota Tundra
90 day: 18.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 174
Thanked 60 Times in 56 Posts
Since I don't have access to a shop, the X-Car will stay in the model stage for now. Since mama said we "might" need a UTV to tool around in when we go camping, I'm working on a design for an Electric Buggy, with the possibility of adding a small gas generator, to charge while traveling, for extended range. It's story is here in the Hybrid section, under... Off Road Hybrid Buggy. I have friends with a motorcycle shop, looking for a project and a "perceived budget" of $5,000 or so, the cost of a used Yamaha Rhino UTV.

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CFECO For This Useful Post:
freebeard (08-30-2015)
Reply  Post New Thread




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maximum angle for boat tail? abcdpeterson Aerodynamics 80 11-03-2021 12:55 PM
Aerodynamic Streamlining Template Part-B aerohead Aerodynamics 8 05-31-2013 12:23 PM
LED Headlight captainslug DIY / How-to 82 11-15-2011 01:32 AM
Aerodynamic Streamlining Template: Part-A aerohead Aerodynamics 0 07-18-2009 02:37 PM
All items I scanned in the new product showcase dremd The Lounge 0 11-08-2008 04:14 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com