High MPG Vehicle or Custom Build?

[schunter1969]

My next direction for my 4runner is a straight axle swap so I can lift it higher and make a custom suspension because right now with the independent front suspension my flex is horrible.

Ive looked for other builds like the Centurion and found nothing. I am probably just going to get a TDI jetta

[oil pan 4]

I drove a 2004 jetta tdi for a while and the 2 things I found lacking were the intake piping and intercooler. Since you are going to be highway driving a bigger turbo wouldn't hurt. But before bigger injectors I would try water methanol injection first, unless the injectors were dirt cheap.

[schunter1969]

Oil Pan, when the VW rolled out the 2004 Jetta TDI it had pretty much the same body since 1999 but it had a different motor. The PD motors are well documented to be unreliable. 2003 is the last year of the ALH motor in a Jetta.

[Fat Charlie]

Oddly enough, I hate it when some idiot asks about fuel saving mods and refuses to understand that the mods don't save gas, the driver does: You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Picking up one of Prince's guitars won't make you a better player, but practicing will even if it's on a silly looking guitar.

As to the Prius' looks, form follows ****ing function. You want to drive nails but hate the way hammers look? Then get used to doing it badly. You're basically asking for constructive advice on modifying a sawzall (that you haven't bought yet) to drive nails, and you're acting indignant when you get advice to simply buy a hammer. Because hammers look dorky.

Saying get over yourself isn't preaching. The air you're trying to push your car through doesn't care about your tastes. I actually do- just a couple weeks ago a new user was looking at an 07 Fit, an 09 Yaris and an 05 Corvette, and I was in favor of the Vette. That user was in touch with his wants and needs. But if it looks like you're lying to yourself and get abrupt, callous answers, don't call it preaching. It's important to be honest with yourself and let wants and needs affect each other. Call that preaching if you want.

Originally Posted by schunter1969

MY QUESTION:
"Is there a similar build as the Centurion that would allow me to get those kind of MPG? Kit?

Nope. If you're not interested in driving efficiently, you won't get those numbers in an Elio running on unicorn farts. See? Abrupt and not preachy. Tellin' it like it is, as they say these days.

On another note, the air you're pushing your car through doesn't care if it's moving around cardboard and duct tape or lovingly hand planished steel. Numbers at the pump aren't a participation award.

[vskid3]

What has you so obsessed with the Centurion? Ya it looks cool, but it doesn't really get over 100MPG unless you're willing to take a few hours on your commute. According to this article, it gets 128MPG at a constant 35MPH, and around 40MPG in normal driving. The reason it gets good mileage is the tiny diesel (that tops out at 55MPH), not really the aerodynamics.

Originally Posted by schunter1969

An actual modification to a car requires tools, experience, and hard work. Things I have seen people do on this website for "Hypermiling Mods" is tape Duct Tape and card board for "aerodynamics".... this is not an actual modification, this you trying to make yourself feel good because you lack the skills to actually do something. You are giving yourself a participation trophy and patting yourself on the back.

Have you ever crunched the numbers for how long it takes for mods to pay off? Most only increase mileage by a few percent each, and starting with a higher MPG car makes additional savings have less and less impact. If I were to buy/make $300 wheel skirts for my Prius and they took it from 50 to 55MPG (they wouldn't), it would take over 41k miles for them to pay off with $4/gal gas. If I made those same skirts using coroplast and some bits from the hardware store for $30, it would only 4100 miles to break even. That's why most mods are done on the cheap.


This is pretty much what the optimal aerodynamic car would look like.


This is the Aerocivic, the physical manifestation of the aero template. It gets 100MPG at 60MPH. Anything that doesn't look similar won't come close to those numbers.

[freebeard]

All these responses clearly did not read my original post. So before you reply how about you actual read what I was asking.

[snip for potty mouth]

MY QUESTION:
"Is there a similar build as the Centurion that would allow me to get those kind of MPG? Kit? Any other success stories like the Centurion that is well documented?"

Is a Honda insight similar to a Centurion build??? NOPE

Is a Prius similar to a Centurion build??? NOPE

[snip for arrogance]

If you are not responding to my question about similar builds to the Centurion then move on. And if you think your [snip] is similar to a Centurion then your opinion is worthless.

You cast a wide net. When are you going to answer my questions?

I took a look at the Urba Centurion. Why would you want something like that piece of, um, 'automotive excrement'? Put a TDI on a Beetle floorpan. You want flex, add track and wheelbase with long arm A-arms and extended shock mounts. Then you can choose from a plethora of low-drag bodies.

A friendly suggestion: Expurgate your l*ngu*ge, the mods are watching.

[rmay635703]

The only other vehicles that can get similar MPGs as the Urba are the
High MPG Vehicle aka HMV freeway with proper motor
Subaru 360 with proper techniques

Otherwise just buy and build a Centurion if it's what you want.

A TDI is an expensive to own car, cheaper to just get any normal MT econobox in the long run. Heck even a Cobalt XFE.

[schunter1969]

Fat Charlie you must not have any basic understand of how a combustion engine works... which explains your duct tape and card board "modifications".

When you increase the efficiency of how a motor runs, the mpg increases regardless of how you drive.

For the VW's with the ALH motor, it is well documented that if you install a bigger turbo and injectors (with the correct supporting systems like FMIC, etc) this will increase the efficiency of the motor. The increase in forced air at the right amount coupled with the correct tuning almost doubles the HP and Torque of the motor.

Then after doing those upgrades, WITH A MANUAL TRANSMISSION, you can swap out the 5th gear for a taller gear. Because you have increased the efficiency/torque of the motor it can now handle the increased load of a taller gear.

With this done you can be cruising at 1,500 rpms going 70mph and get 80+mpg. I am not making up these numbers, again this is well documented BEFORE even doing any aero mods.

While at the same time when I come up to Fat Charlie's duct tape/card board car cruising at 50mph Ill drop it into 4th and fly by with the new capabilities of my car. Also I be leaving you a black cloud of smoke because my Jetta will be a 3" straight pipe from turbo down pipe to tip of my exhaust! None of that catalytic converter nonsense.

Fat Charlie how about you educate yourself before making another uneducated comment on vehicles. You can be the most efficient driver but at the end of the day you are going to plateau when you reach the max capabilities of your motor and drivetrain. All the duct tape and card board in the world isn't going to change that.

Fat Charlie you compared building an efficient car to playing the guitar???

TDI's are expensive car to own if you do not do the maintenance and work yourself.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by schunter1969

Fat Charlie you must not have any basic understand of how a combustion engine works... which explains your duct tape and card board

With this done you can be cruising at 1,500 rpms going 70mph and get 80+mpg. I am not making up these numbers, again this is well documented BEFORE even doing any aero mods.

While at the same time when I come up to Fat Charlie's duct tape/card board car cruising at 50mph Ill drop it into 4th and fly by with the new capabilities of my car. Also I be leaving you a black cloud of smoke because my Jetta will be a 3" straight pipe from turbo down pipe to tip of my exhaust! None of that catalytic converter nonsense.

Fat Charlie how about you educate yourself before making another uneducated comment on vehicles. You can be the most efficient driver but at the end of the day you are going to plateau when you reach the max capabilities of your motor and drivetrain. All the duct tape and card board in the world isn't going to change that.

Fat Charlie you compared building an efficient car to playing the guitar???

TDI's are expensive car to own if you do not do the maintenance and work yourself.

TDIs of the last 20 years are expensive even when you do the work, the parts run more $$$ and get replaced more often. (My father owned one)
To say money pit is an understatement .

If you want a TDI stick with a 1994, it's the cheapest to run.

As for uneducated get your 80mpg ALH TDI running and keep a fuel log here.
Educate us and prove us wrong with data.
You can also look for cars identical to what you propose, many here have owned or modd'd TDIs in their past, their garage entries (or fuelly ) and conditions they drove in are usually there as well.

You may find why we have a disclaimer here about claims, especially those made on the internet about intakes exhaust and turbos which usually gain less than 5% in the real world. (Many reduce efficiency)

Further that up to 90% of the energy needed to move a car is to displace air as you move, your arguments on splitting hairs with gaining a few percent with a turbo fall flat with me.

A TDI gains FE from gearing despite the turbo so no argument there.

I recommend reading about the VW Lupo which actually does what you want, it can do what you want with or without a turbo.

[freebeard]

Fat Charlie you must not have any basic understand of how a combustion engine works...

Fat Charlie how about you educate yourself before making another uneducated comment on vehicles.

Fat Charlie you compared building an efficient car to playing the guitar???

Feel better now?

Fat Charlie compared driving the car to playing a guitar. I know reasoning by analogy is hard, but geez Louise...