My 1991 Talon TSi Compound Turbo AWD

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by Logic

Details! We need details!
Injectors modified how? Just for a start!
Pistons? Just lower compression to give more volume at TDC?

You might try a HHO cell, NOT for economy, but to increase flame speed and free you of
'Nitrous range anxiety' and cost..?

I'm glad the info on Acetone increasing atomization/vaporization? was handy.

On the injectors I came up with a plastic injector cap that directs the fuel spray towards the pre-chamber feed slot. It made a major improvement at a low cost. My favorite type of modification.

On the HHO cell I had one given to me from a viewer, but it was lost in freight and never received it. So now I'm back to square one and looking for another one. This is something I need to address ASAP because as we talked nitrous is just an experimenting band aid as of now because of its extra cost.

Thanks again for the information about Acetone. This really opened my eyes to the importance of fuel atomization. Just to recap to some of the new viewers the waste solvent I use is made up of 85 to 90% Acetone. Just a quick good old boy test is spill a couple ounces of Acetone on the road vs a couple ounces of pump fuel and watch them evaporate. Acetone will be all evaporated in fraction of time compared to the pump fuel. Pump fuel has changed a ton since the mid 70's when it comes to evaporation and its volatility.

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Didn't you have another engine that you were going to assemble and fit to the Camaro, while keeping the Talon? Are you going to daily-drive the Camaro?

You're correct, I do have another engine ready to go in the Camaro. I just recently made the decision to use the Talon engine that is tried and true. The new engine is made more for upper high rpm and will not be as fuel efficient.
The Talon engine in the Camaro should be able to run high 8's in the 1/4 mile pretty easy and should be able to get better fuel milage based on its better aero vs the Talon. Don't get me wrong the Talon has good aero at .29 Cd but the AWD part hurts the Talon a bit.

The main reason I'm getting rid of the Talon it is taking a toll on me trying to work on two highly modified cars. This and I don't have the room for this many projects. The Talon also has drivetrain issues when turned up. Transmission, transfer case, and drive axles are always breaking. Plus, the Camaro will be 100 times easier to work on and make changes on.

The Camaro won't be driven in the winter months but will drive the wheels off it during the warmer months.

[Logic]

Originally Posted by pgfpro

On the injectors I came up with a plastic injector cap that directs the fuel spray towards the pre-chamber feed slot. It made a major improvement at a low cost. My favorite type of modification.

Ah! Yes; everyone's favorite type of mod.
Thx.

Originally Posted by pgfpro

On the HHO cell I had one given to me from a viewer, but it was lost in freight and never received it. So now I'm back to square one and looking for another one. This is something I need to address ASAP because as we talked nitrous is just an experimenting band aid as of now because of its extra cost.

That's a pity.

I NB that MIT etc's SynGas producing Plasmatrons are little more than giant spark plugs, fed with a tiny bit of water and fuel that's pre heated by the exhaust.
They actually look cheaper and easier to knock together than your std HHO cell and are at an efficiency that made MIT and Co commercialize them before being 'bought out'.
I'll re-look at the research if you like.

Then there's Graphite Foil which, unlike stainless steel, you can cut with a pair of scissors.
That makes making a cell way simpler.

6 cells will give you some Ozone if you want Ozone?
7 is more efficient and runs cooler.
IIRC the electrodes don't erode as easily either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuZ5WxYwl4g&t=151s

Originally Posted by pgfpro

Thanks again for the information about Acetone. This really opened my eyes to the importance of fuel atomization. Just to recap to some of the new viewers the waste solvent I use is made up of 85 to 90% Acetone. Just a quick good old boy test is spill a couple ounces of Acetone on the road vs a couple ounces of pump fuel and watch them evaporate. Acetone will be all evaporated in fraction of time compared to the pump fuel. Pump fuel has changed a ton since the mid 70's when it comes to evaporation and its volatility.

A pleasure pgfpro.

I have heard complaints before that pump fuel has changed.
IIRC people complaining that it no longer evaporated as it did and now left a "sticky" residue that gummed up the works.
Is this your experience too?

[pgfpro]

I have heard complaints before that pump fuel has changed.
IIRC people complaining that it no longer evaporated as it did and now left a "sticky" residue that gummed up the works.
Is this your experience too?

Yes. It's the first thing I noticed when I started my waste solvent tests after a tear down of the engine for inspection. Today's pump fuel in the USA is garbage IMHO. Plus, it doesn't work very well for today's DI engines. Just a quick visual of the exhaust tail pipe on a DI new engine drives me crazy!!! My 22' Toyota Tacoma that I bought brand new drove me crazy when I first got it with all the black soot inside the tail pipe. I'm not a chemist but I'm smart enough to know that this black soot is definitely a byproduct of incomplete combustion. The Tacoma now has 66k on it and still doesn't consume any oil between oil changes. So, it's not oil consumption that is making the soot.

On the Talon the tail pipe is clean as can be on waste solvent, petrol race fuel and E98. On E85 its cleaner then then pump petrol but not as clean as E98 or waste solvent and race fuel.

Now the bigger question is why is todays fuel this way??? Is it a cost issue? Is it a product of design issue? Is it a EVAP issue? Is it a VOC issue?

I'm going to do a test on my home-built combustion tester in a few weeks to show the difference between todays pump fuel and waste solvent.

[freebeard]

Now the bigger question is why is todays fuel this way???

newsroom.aaa.com: AAA: Not All Gasoline Created Equal

The independent laboratory testing compared gasolines that meet TOP TIER™ standards often marketed to consumers as having enhanced, engine-cleaning detergent additives with gasoline brands that do not participate in the automaker-backed program. Among brands tested, non-TOP TIER gasolines caused 19 times more engine deposits than TOP TIER brands after just 4,000 miles of simulated driving. Such carbon deposits are known to reduce fuel economy, increase emissions and negatively impact vehicle performance, particularly on newer vehicles.

[Logic]

Originally Posted by pgfpro

Yes. It's the first thing I noticed when I started my waste solvent tests after a tear down of the engine for inspection. Today's pump fuel in the USA is garbage IMHO. Plus, it doesn't work very well for today's DI engines. Just a quick visual of the exhaust tail pipe on a DI new engine drives me crazy!!! My 22' Toyota Tacoma that I bought brand new drove me crazy when I first got it with all the black soot inside the tail pipe. I'm not a chemist but I'm smart enough to know that this black soot is definitely a byproduct of incomplete combustion. The Tacoma now has 66k on it and still doesn't consume any oil between oil changes. So, it's not oil consumption that is making the soot.

On the Talon the tail pipe is clean as can be on waste solvent, petrol race fuel and E98. On E85 its cleaner then then pump petrol but not as clean as E98 or waste solvent and race fuel.

Now the bigger question is why is todays fuel this way??? Is it a cost issue? Is it a product of design issue? Is it a EVAP issue? Is it a VOC issue?

I'm going to do a test on my home-built combustion tester in a few weeks to show the difference between todays pump fuel and waste solvent.

I NB that people have been cleaning carbon out of engines for years with water mist or steam.
I also NB that:
Red hot carbon + steam (super heated) = Water Gas: a mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_gas

Water mist does nothing for combustion speed, but evaporating water in the intake tracts (Water Injection) does allow for dramatically higher compression without ping, thx to Evaporative Cooling.
That's been in use for ages too.

I haven't seen what the exhaust etc of a Turbo engine with Water Injection looks like pgfpro.
Have you?

I look forward to your tests.

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by freebeard

newsroom.aaa.com: AAA: Not All Gasoline Created Equal

I've been using a Top Teir gas station for all my tests in the Talon. I will be doing a carbon deposit test with this fuel hopefully this weekend.

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by Logic

I NB that people have been cleaning carbon out of engines for years with water mist or steam.
I also NB that:
Red hot carbon + steam (super heated) = Water Gas: a mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_gas

Water mist does nothing for combustion speed, but evaporating water in the intake tracts (Water Injection) does allow for dramatically higher compression without ping, thx to Evaporative Cooling.
That's been in use for ages too.

I haven't seen what the exhaust etc of a Turbo engine with Water Injection looks like pgfpro.
Have you?

I look forward to your tests.

I agree water injection is a great way to get rid of most deposits. I have a Devils Own system on the Talon. I haven't been using it for the last two years to remove it from the equation. I'm glad you brought this up after using auto paint waste solvent only with two tear downs, I've found the engine is cleaner than with water injection on pump. Especially in the ring land areas.

[Logic]

Originally Posted by freebeard

newsroom.aaa.com: AAA: Not All Gasoline Created Equal

I tried to verify this:
1st the AAA makes a living from selling insurance. That's not a good start to gaining my trust.
https://newsroom.aaa.com/about/

In the article:
"...AAA engaged the services of an independent International Standards Organization 17025 certified engine testing lab to perform an ASTM International standard test on fuels...

...For additional information about fuel quality, including the full test report and fact sheet, visit NewsRoom.AAA.com..."

So I used their (the sites) search function. (top right) to search for:
fuel quality test report
And no report..?
https://newsroom.aaa.com/?aaa_asset_...0test%20report

Anyone seen the report with the "certified engine testing lab"s name on the top of the paper?

From the Thankyou's to the post, I assume these insurance salesmen are a trusted and respected institution over there?
(Never thought I'd use 'insurance salesmen' and 'trusted' and 'respected' in the same sentence! )

(I know a guy in the USA with a Mass Spectrometer who would be happy to do
Mass Spectrometry on a fuel sample or 2 if anyone's interested?)

[freebeard]

1st the AAA makes a living from selling insurance. That's not a good start to gaining my trust.

Nothing like AAA in SA? The insurance is for breakdowns on the road, not (primarily?) liability.

Try DuckDuckGo? duckduckgo.com/?q=fuel+quality%2C+including+the+full+test+report+ and+fact+sheet%2C+visit+NewsRoom.AAA.com&ia=web

The third result: https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/f...ull-Report.pdf

Key Findings:
1. The test engine operated on a TOP TIER gasoline averaged 19 times fewer intake valve deposits than when it was operated on non- TOP TIER gasoline. (based on the ASTM D6201 test - TOP TIER gasoline averaged 34.1mg of deposits per intake valve versus non- TOP TIER average of 660.6mg)
2. Based upon secondary research findings, long-term use of a gasoline without an enhanced additive package can lead to reductions in fuel economy of 2-4%, drivability issues, and increased emissions.