My 1991 Talon TSi Compound Turbo AWD

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by pgfpro

I think a lot of coatings are prohibited in the F1 coatings rule.

I was lurking about the suitability of such coatings for your engine, not for F1. Unless you would use it on some racing class to which some strict regulation would also prohibit some coating to the pistons of your engine.

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

I was lurking about the suitability of such coatings for your engine, not for F1. Unless you would use it on some racing class to which some strict regulation would also prohibit some coating to the pistons of your engine.

I should have made my myself clearer. I agree I'm looking into different piston coatings. What I have is in the middle of my pistons an added conductor device that directs the flame to the outer perimeter of the pistons. So, a spray guided piston type. The design of this is very critical and needs to stay extremely clean. My concerns are with a coating it might change the dynamics of staying clean and could alter the performance. The only way to test it is to coat the pistons and see what happens. Thanks for your comments much appreciated.

[Logic]

Originally Posted by pgfpro

...I'm looking into different piston coatings. What I have is in the middle of my pistons an added conductor device that directs the flame to the outer perimeter of the pistons. So, a spray guided piston type. The design of this is very critical and needs to stay extremely clean. My concerns are with a coating it might change the dynamics of staying clean and could alter the performance. The only way to test it is to coat the pistons and see what happens. Thanks for your comments much appreciated.

Ah...
So you want to:

• Remove the earth electrode off of a std plug.
• Coat the piston top with an electrical insulator.
• Then have a (insulated) conductor stuck to the insulating layer, that starts with a little point in the center of the piston for the plug to spark to, then conducts outward to the piston periphery and sparks back to the head through the squish area?

If so; I assume your piston-top conductor goes to the area with the most squish area?

Clever way to get twin sparks.
IF, as you say, you can get all the gaps (to stay) right and keep things clean enough.

I worry that:

• The insulated conductive path on the piston top will accumulate too much temperature and cause pre-ignition.
• (heavy) Spark plug ceramic may work, but just how thick of a layer can one get to stick to a piston top and said conductor reliably?

Pistons accelerate/decelerate at one hell of a rate!

I worked the numbers out once while 'patenting' (stupid of me I now know) a 2-stroke type sump, with reed valves, acting as a supercharger for a 4-stroke engine... (light and compact)
I wanted to put one-way (intake) valves in the piston tops somehow, so you could have 4 exhaust valves per piston in the head and all the possibilities that go with that.
Anyway;
I do recall the 'weights' of the various 'piston top valve' contraptions I came up with being astronomical!..?


Another question:
You aren't running a std ignition (coils) system are you?
There are capacitors and diodes and 'base volts' in all the right places aren't there!?

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by Logic

Ah...
So you want to:

• Remove the earth electrode off of a std plug.
• Coat the piston top with an electrical insulator.
• Then have a (insulated) conductor stuck to the insulating layer, that starts with a little point in the center of the piston for the plug to spark to, then conducts outward to the piston periphery and sparks back to the head through the squish area?

If so; I assume your piston-top conductor goes to the area with the most squish area?

Clever way to get twin sparks.
IF, as you say, you can get all the gaps (to stay) right and keep things clean enough.

I worry that:

• The insulated conductive path on the piston top will accumulate too much temperature and cause pre-ignition.
• (heavy) Spark plug ceramic may work, but just how thick of a layer can one get to stick to a piston top and said conductor reliably?

Pistons accelerate/decelerate at one hell of a rate!

I worked the numbers out once while 'patenting' (stupid of me I now know) a 2-stroke type sump, with reed valves, acting as a supercharger for a 4-stroke engine... (light and compact)
I wanted to put one-way (intake) valves in the piston tops somehow, so you could have 4 exhaust valves per piston in the head and all the possibilities that go with that.
Anyway;
I do recall the 'weights' of the various 'piston top valve' contraptions I came up with being astronomical!..?


Another question:
You aren't running a std ignition (coils) system are you?
There are capacitors and diodes and 'base volts' in all the right places aren't there!?

Actually, this is what I want to experiment with in the future.

What I'm talking about in my above post is basically a spray guided piston. This is the name I gave to the center shape of the piston "conductor". It basically directs the flame from the pre-chamber outward at a specific angle. The conductor also serves a second purpose and is used to check piston
height. I made a tool that screws into the spark plug hole. I put the piston I'm checking at TDC and install the tool. The conductor has a step in it the tool fits into. It's kind of like a piston stop. The reason behind this is to check for bending rods. When boost is turned up and or lots of nitrous for power the stock rod configuration works great because it will bend before it actually breaks. I also run the stock pistons for the reason if the engine detonates the ring lands will break, and power will fall off drastically because of it being a 4 cylinder and each having 25% of the total power being made. The third thing the conductor does is directs the fuel to it and makes a rich area that helps feed the pre-chamber. So, this why I came up with the name conductor because it plays a major role in several ways to help make the engine more efficient.

[Logic]

Originally Posted by pgfpro

What I'm talking about in my above post is basically a spray guided piston. This is the name I gave to the center shape of the piston "conductor". It basically directs the flame from the pre-chamber outward at a specific angle. The conductor also serves a second purpose and is used to check piston
height. I made a tool that screws into the spark plug hole. I put the piston I'm checking at TDC and install the tool. The conductor has a step in it the tool fits into. It's kind of like a piston stop. The reason behind this is to check for bending rods. When boost is turned up and or lots of nitrous for power the stock rod configuration works great because it will bend before it actually breaks. I also run the stock pistons for the reason if the engine detonates the ring lands will break, and power will fall off drastically because of it being a 4 cylinder and each having 25% of the total power being made. The third thing the conductor does is directs the fuel to it and makes a rich area that helps feed the pre-chamber. So, this why I came up with the name conductor because it plays a major role in several ways to help make the engine more efficient.

Aaaah! OK! Yes that IS interesting!
So direct the flame front in the direction in which it will 'light the whole fire' the soonest, giving max pressure at the optimum crank angle.
I wish there were pictures of your combustion chamber?

"check piston height":
Sounds like you have done nasty things to a poor old micrometer to make that tool?

Originally Posted by pgfpro

Actually, this is what I want to experiment with in the future.

Wow!... Did I give you an idea here!??

(I actually keep my best ones to myself lately.
Yes that as stupid as trying to patent them I know. But less stupid than posting them on this forum I have come to realize.
A bit of a quandary...)


What are you thinking in terms of copper plating a head and piston tops?
Is that still on the cards?

[freebeard]

Wow!... Did I give you an idea here!??

(I actually keep my best ones to myself lately.
Yes that as stupid as trying to patent them I know. But less stupid than posting them on this forum I have come to realize.
A bit of a quandary...)

I know how you feel, nobody cared about my low-poly teardrop trailer. ;(

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by Logic

Aaaah! OK! Yes that IS interesting!
So direct the flame front in the direction in which it will 'light the whole fire' the soonest, giving max pressure at the optimum crank angle.
I wish there were pictures of your combustion chamber?

"check piston height":
Sounds like you have done nasty things to a poor old micrometer to make that tool?



Wow!... Did I give you an idea here!??

(I actually keep my best ones to myself lately.
Yes that as stupid as trying to patent them I know. But less stupid than posting them on this forum I have come to realize.
A bit of a quandary...)


What are you thinking in terms of copper plating a head and piston tops?
Is that still on the cards?

Yeah, on the tool its one that I get a lot of weird looks when telling them what it does

Yes, you gave me a great idea. I just need to get this thing running first before I start working on the copper coating. I also need to watch what I post on here. The big thing I want to talk about but won't is what my compression ratio is. It would blow people's minds if they knew. lol I'm going to save that for a 45-minute video that I will post later this spring.

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by freebeard

I know how you feel, nobody cared about my low-poly teardrop trailer. ;(

I hear you. Not sure if it's just this forum or is it just the way things are now? This forum use to be on fire with a lot of great comments from lots of people. I chalk it up as its just how social media has destroyed most forums. I hope it comes back someday.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by pgfpro

My concerns are with a coating it might change the dynamics of staying clean and could alter the performance. The only way to test it is to coat the pistons and see what happens.

Didn't you have a spare engine which you could use as a testbed? Or enough parts to make some sort of single-cylinder derivative of the 4G63 exactly to use it as a testbed prior to applying some design changes to your project, or maybe discarding some failed designs at a lower cost compared to a regular 4-cyl?

[Logic]

Originally Posted by pgfpro

I hear you. Not sure if it's just this forum or is it just the way things are now? This forum use to be on fire with a lot of great comments from lots of people. I chalk it up as its just how social media has destroyed most forums. I hope it comes back someday.

I've been wondering about that too.
Things seem to have slowed down a lot around here..?

As to things I will and wont post:
My research and experience on Boric Acid as a lubricant or metal surface modifier got attacked with what looked to me to be a concerted effort to stop people from trying it.
Even in engines that are about to be redone anyway!
Very few people dared to post their opinions there although it does seem to be well read.
I guess no one wants to feel like 'The Accused' in a Judge Judy show.

Other things; I feel may be worth (building) reputation and money, but I don't have the resources to take them any further.
One also doesn't want to see some unscrupulous person 'own' your idea and take all the credit (and income) for it.
(I do get that an idea is maybe 1% of the effort of commercializing a lucrative a product, but a "Thx to [persons name] who's idea this is based on" at the very least, is just how things should be IMHO)

Perhaps the more hands on types have migrated away to forums populated by more open minded people?
I do NB that there seem to be forums per car model nowadays.