--- Water injection VS Steam Injection ---

[dcb]

Hi Azio, where ya been?

I'm still not sure we have enough info to make a comparison to an actual car. Do you have any measured power vs fuel/o2/water consumption figures?

How big are the fuel/water/o2 tanks and how many btus do they hold? How much do they weigh?

Most people would agree that compressing air in a piston engine isn't a 100% loss proposal, as that compressed air will contribute to pushing back down on the piston after top dead center, even if it is now supporting combustion. So the diesel discussion seems like it is misleading if you stop looking at it right at the point of ignition.

What have you actually measured? current o2 production and transportation? water purification and injecting? fuel conditioning and compression? I really don't put a lot of faith in theories, no offense, but there have been a few "red flags" here.

FYI, being able to go full throttle in one rev doesn't do anything for me, not exactly a "great thing"

[Azmio]

sorry buddy, been busy with report writing and some chemical process energy balance.

There is a paper by the US Army tank command describing how they recover the water back after the injection. It has many similarities with the concept that I have, you can view it for free at

linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0082078475803985

Basically, unless we want to carry lots of water, it is necessary to condense the water in the exhaust gas, filter it and reuse the water again. So basically, I am looking for water to fuel ratio of about 4-7:1 . if there is an external supply of heat from solar or geothermal, we can bump it up to even 10:1

As stated in the paper by the us army, you need to lower the exhaust temperature to as low as 40 C to recover the water.

Yup i agree with you that compressing gas isnt 100% wasteful. However, I am coming from an angle where I am questioning on whether it is necessary to compress lots of nitrogen which does not belong in the cylinder at all? when the diesel engine run lean, there will be plenty of gas that will be compressed for nothing.

in addition, diesel engine often overcompress the charge at high load resulting the peak temperature to go above 2000K where NOx becomes a big problem.

What I am proposing is to use plenty of recycled exhaust gas to raise the cylinder temperature. Next, variable valve timing will be used to set the effective compression ratio. Let's say if we target auto ignition temperature of 1000K, we can be sure that optimum compression work is used regardless of speed and load

My calculation was based on compression work required for conventional diesel if compared to oxygen engine with exhaust gas trapping and variable exhaust valve timing. Even when all the power requirement for oxygen production is added, the conventional diesel engine still requires twice the energy needed to make a complete compression stroke.

Considering that I agree with you that the compressed gas will bounce back during the expansion stroke, much of the heat would have gone to the coolant during the compression stroke which is wasteful.

as for the engine speed, considering that it makes power in every revolution, i limit the engine speed to around 3000 rpm. With delivery of oxygen, water and fuel independent of engine speed and load, you can get peak torque even at 500 rpm and the peak torque will remain peaky even if you rev the engine further to 3000 rpm.

You will need a wide gear ratio CVT or AMT to really make a full use of the torque at speed as low as idling speed.

[wizardman42]

I have been tinkering with this for 2 years now ,route a water line around the exhaust to heat the water , induct it in the air cleaner asmbl. between the filter and throtel plate , had a nissan up to 80 MPG. now the why. to break any molecule down you need to stress it , heat is a start , at 400 degrees F some water will break down , then put it into the combustion chamber and beat the crap out of it with the piston , then shock it with high voltage electricity , then subject it to more heat , then expose it to a good catalyst. yes hot burning carbon fuel and steam = a catalytic response , not ALL the water breaks down but a lot of it does . WOW!!! smokey unick had a Fereio up to 55 miles to the gallon useing a method called hot plasma injection . The biggest problem I have encountered is metering the water , too much puts the fire out, it can perk while the engine is off, ect.. I think cool mist .com is going to finaly get my money so I can meter the water through the heat exchanger , up to know I have spent maybe a wopping $50 on 4 different vehicals and have lots of great results including cleaning out a 6.9 diesel , that now runs like a sports car . ohh secret put a little dish detergent into the water , helps reduce the surface tension of the water , have good clean fun now !!!

[oil pan 4]

Water injection - EcoModder

[willrodman03]

I do believe water injection since I've tried it before. Just don't know with the steam injection. I think it has no effect.

[maxc]

I've have steam injection on carbed V8. When I lean the fuel so the engine misfires. Then turn on the "steam" engine runs smooth again.

[gone-ot]

...as water vapor (ie: "steam") goes UP, the amount of oxygen remaining (due to constant volume) does DOWN.

[maxc]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...as water vapor (ie: "steam") goes UP, the amount of oxygen remaining (due to constant volume) does DOWN.

So that means the power gos down?

[Harlan]

Currently working on a steam injection mod for an RX8. The idea is to preheat the intake charge and then cool the engine. I've got the cooling the engine part down, but metering the water and producing good steam has been a problem. Wizardman is way off in his explanation, but I've suffered from a lot of the same design problems so I figure he actually had a system built. Reworking the design now, and will post an individual thread once I have results. You can see my progress so far on the RX8Club forums under the "Research Experimental 8" thread.

[Everett]

I spray methanol when I spray nitrous. It allows for bigger shots. The injected methanol raises the octane of the air/fuel mix. I have tried spraying a variety of stuff thru it.