Why is Ethanol such a polarizing topic?

[Allch Chcar]

Wasn't the Ford Flathead limited by design to a 7:1 compression ratio?

[freebeard]

Define 'by design'.

The stock steel heads were milled to increase compression, the aluminum heads already had the smaller pocket over the valves. 14 to 1 sounds about right for alcohol. Look up "Hadacol Boogie".

The design limitation of the flathead is constricted breathing and the solution is a GMC 6-71 supercharger. With that it will match an OHV V-8. A blower and Ar-Dun heads was the best of both worlds.

Or maybe a turbo, MSD ignition and a 4-speed box? One of the nice things about a flathead, beyond the narrow overall width, is the exhaust is routed through the block and so they run really quietly.

[order99]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Ethanol supporters need to experience a Ford flathead with cast aluminum high-compression heads.

MUST you encourage me to drool on my keyboard like that? I don't have that many replacements left, y'know....

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Henry Ford himself was an ethanol supporter.

[radioranger]

to me a rocker arm engine is amazingly poor for an engine design , compared to a overhead cammer, an overhead cam motor is in a way the ultimate flathead, , I agree the flathead is quiet and smooth but that may be a function of lower power output, routing the wxhaust through the block probably not that big a factor as overhead valve designs do a similar thing through the head. rocker arms allow compact design but waste a lot through the valvetrain

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Regarding spark-ignited engines, my favorites are 2-stroke. No valvetrain, less maintenance, and easier to tune for ethanol since there is no worry about the lenght of pushrods or the tension of a cam timing belt or chain.

[shovel]

Originally Posted by litesong

EPA runs & designates their mpg test to be with 100% gasoline equivalent. In truth (like you try to cover up), 90% of 10% ethanol blends is 100% gasoline.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but I never at any point tried to "cover up" the fact that the gasoline portion of a blend is gasoline.

That's like saying "I'M NAKED UNDER MY CLOTHES!"... it means nothing.

I'm a market diversity advocate. I don't give a rip about ethanol or gasoline or gnome urine, my angle is that more than one substance will burn in the cars already on the road and in our driveways and only the worst people benefit from a monopoly. If you want to call me pro-ethanol, call me anti-anti-ethanol instead because that's closer to reality.

Ethanol itself is currently the most viable product alternative to petroleum and as a petroleum extender it has proven itself to not be a problem. With as few exceptions as to not be relevant, every (gasoline) car on the road lives on a steady diet of blended ethanol/petroleum, every mile, every day, for the duration of their lives and how many problems can be blamed on the ethanol? I'm going to say zero (unless you count drunk drivers..) , but I guess a guy with an oil well on his property might say "all of them!!"

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by shovel

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but I never at any point tried to "cover up" the fact that the gasoline portion of a blend is gasoline.

Shovel, Indolene is 91 aki octane aka Pure test grade Gasoline. It does not have any additives. If it was 10% Ethanol with 90% Indolene, it would be Premium Gasoline. Gasoline sold from the pump and even "Pure" Gasoline is far from pure.

[user removed]

My 37 Ford had 7.5 to 1 compression which was about the highest Ford ever offered in their Flatheads. When you try to increase compression you run into problems with combustion chamber volume. Supercharging or turbocharging will definitely help a Flathead, but the 3 main bearings in the Ford V8 are a limiting factor as far as bottom end strength, so when you increase HP and use forced induction you start to reach the limits of bottom end strength. The Ford Flathead also had an offset crankshaft, similar to modern "Atkinson" type designs. My 37 idled at 350 RPM. To check the idle speed you put it in high gear and let it idle on a flat paved road. The idle speed was correct when it went 7 MPH in high gear, as long as the brakes were not dragging. I could stop my 37, with cable operated brakes, with just my thumb, adjusted the brakes with a digital thermometer, matching the temp of each drum within 15 degrees.

Nothing but E10 here unless I drive 60 miles and pay about 40+ cents a gallon more. Mot enough defference in mileage to justify the distance or expense.

regards
Mech

[RedDevil]

American E10 does not have ány water mixed in, right?

I ask this because I had one tank of German E10 (10% pure ethanol) of which I could smell the ethanol quite clearly when I filled up and on a 'cold' start with open windows (yeah, that cold )
I am now on my 3rd tank of hE15, (15% hydrogenated ethanol, so 14.4% ethanol and 0.6% water) and it does not smell that strong at all. The water content binds the ethanol so it is much less volatile.

A bottle of pure ethanol will empty itself in an hour or so if you leave the cap off.
It evaporates so fast that it is hazardous in the presence of open fire.
Therefore it is often sold as a 96% mix with 4% of water. Then it behaves like a liquid instead of a gas. That same mixture makes up the 15% of hE15.

Gasoline does nothing to bind the ethanol, at least not like water does. So the ethanol in E10 is still quite volatile.
I can imagine that if your tank vents even a tiny bit, you'd lose the ethanol much faster when it's pure than when mixed with 4% worth of water.
That could explain why some people get worse FE on ethanol blends. It simply refuses to stay put. All that is left is the gasoline.

In that case mixing E10 with 0.4% of demineralized water might improve your economy. Just add water, boys!
WARNING I accept NO responsibility for this, if you try this on my advice it is on your head.!! I cannot test it as my blend already contains water.

Certainly do not just pour it in the tank, the last thing you'd want is a layer of pure water on the bottom of your tank entering the fuel line at random moments.
Rather take a sample and experiment with mixing that with water and see if it easily mixes or not. Ethanol is very hygroscopic so I think it would, but I can't test it as mine is already hydrogenated.

It sounds too good to be true.
Just add a bit of water to get a slightly better FE...? Really?
But as I explained above, the water plays a vital role in making the gas less volatile. When it burns it will just add to the volume of the exhaust gas, slightly reducing the heat but increase pressure for the same amount of (original) fuel content.
If it does work, that would be something