Why is Ethanol such a polarizing topic?

[freebeard]

No need to depolymerize what's not polymerized in the first place.

This pilot plant ran on turkey guts.

Anything Into Oil - Discover Magazine
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Lignin is the ingredient in the Plastic of Tomorrow

[mikeyjd]

Originally Posted by MPGranger

All this talk about corn as a food... Has nobody heard of the Paleo Diet? I don't believe that any grains are good for human or most animals consumption. No grains, no legumes, dairy is hotly debated. I just cleared up diabetes, heart disease, stroke, cancers and now our fuel problems. And I just helped you drop body weight, which means less power is needed to move your vehicles. Your welcome for the extra FE

Ever tell someone you don't eat bread? or Pasta? or Cereal? People get militant!

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by freebeard

This pilot plant ran on turkey guts.

Anything Into Oil - Discover Magazine
________

Lignin is the ingredient in the Plastic of Tomorrow

All true and useful. But even if all the plastic in the world were made of lignin, there would still be an overage. These technologies can exist side by side, not hurting each other.
Besides, the topic is about ethanol. Now wher's my coffee... ah. ( sip)

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Isn't brewery waste already included in livestock feeding?

Yes, it's been done for years.
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr, you wouldn't happen to know of engine failure rates in Brazil associated with Ethanol would you? I heard someone say that engine failure is common there. I tried searching but all I could find were failures attributed to poorly regulated fuel quality. :/

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I tried E20 once and got one of my best tanks, but I am definitely itching to fill a jug with E85 and do long term testing/dyno runs.

That can happen, I've seen MPG plummet after every increase in Ethanol due to getting 13MPG around town after getting 30MPG on the interstate. I'm sharing a vehicle so I don't do all the driving.

I want to do some testing while driving to other E85 stations. There are some long stretches of barren highway here. But I've been in bed from seasonal allergies.

I put ~E40 in yesterday but I haven't driven it long enough or hard enough to get a CEL. E85 is expensive here, but Gasoline finally jumped up enough to make a semi-decent spread. $2.99 vs $3.50 and Premium is $3.80. After this tank I'm going to put a tank of Regular for it's regular service.

[freebeard]

I went on a road trip, partly to get a clear signal on my gas mileage, but the car was running so rough I don't have high hopes. I changed the fuel filter, didn't help. I'm going to try some Marvel Mystery Oil in the hope it's a clogged carb jet; I already have some in the oil.

I did plan my perambulation to take me through Lincoln, OR, because I know they sell clear premium. When I pulled up to the pump the sign that caught my eye said it was for lawn mowers and outboards. I asked the attendant and he said he could pump it if the car was a 1964 or prior, then the guy across the island in his pickup pointed out that I was at the regular pump. So ethanol-free regular is available at the pump for your low-compression needs.

I'm paying less than $5 a gallon.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr, you wouldn't happen to know of engine failure rates in Brazil associated with Ethanol would you? I heard someone say that engine failure is common there. I tried searching but all I could find were failures attributed to poorly regulated fuel quality. :/

Ethanol-related failures are not really so usual, and poorly-regulated fuel quality is less unusual with gasoline. Diesel fuel recently started to get the quality improved, due to the higher environmental standards which started to get enforced in the past year.

[litesong]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I need to see records to back up the claim before I believe it.

I gave you the results of years(decade plus) of my mpg comparisons of 10% ethanol blends compared to 100% gasoline for 3 gasoline cars, built & designed to burn 100% gasoline, the cars gaining 8%, 7% & 5% mpg with 100% gasoline. Another fellow tested 10% ethanol blends against 100% gasoline for 115,000 miles, finding a 10% gain in 100% gasoline vs. 10% ethanol blends. People need to report other comparisons that bridge the years, that will tend to eliminate variables.

So far, no ethanol advocate here (other places?) has told of their years(decade?) of records stating that 10% ethanol is superior when used in gasoline engines designed & built to use 100% gasoline.

In essence, ethanol needs high compression ratio (nearly diesel compression ratio) ethanol engines(like INDY cars) to gain its inherent efficiency. Ethanol, used in lower compression ratio gasoline engines, loses its efficiency, besides its inherently lower btus per gallon.

The EPA, an ethanol advocate because of its supposed pollution control ability of one pollutant, still uses & defines 100% gasoline equivalent to test gasoline engine vehicles. Vehicle manufacturers like the EPA to do so, because they know that 100% gasoline gives best mpg results.

[litesong]

Originally Posted by shovel

Why on earth would auto manufacturers design their cars to run best on a fuel that's almost impossible to find anywhere?

Citation needed.

EPA runs & designates their mpg test to be with 100% gasoline equivalent. In truth (like you try to cover up), 90% of 10% ethanol blends is 100% gasoline. Your supposed rhetorical question, just self-answers itself, as your ethanol bias.

Ethanol advocates often state that ethanol's high octane is an advantage to burning in a 100% gasoline engine. However, it is NOT, considering that 90 percent of the fuel in 10% ethanol blends, is lower octane 100% gasoline. The large octane "differences" in 10% ethanol blends is why 100% gasoline gives higher mpg in a gasoline engine designed & built to use 100% gasoline. The gasoline engine cannot compensate for such a wide range of octanes contained in 10% ethanol blends.

Read my post above.

[roosterk0031]

Just heard of Fiberight last week, some interesting stuff

Turning Waste Into Biofuel - Fiberight LLC

The Truth About Ethanol

My cars all lose some MPG with E blends, but not all as much as the BTU content says they should. My wife former drive a 2002 Suburban fuel logs on fuelly one for E85 other for E10, about 25% less energy, but only lose about 18% mpg IIRC. Stratus followed energy and btu content in a straight line.

Cobalt seems to be doing better than BTU but driving isn't as consistant as the Stratus as no cruise and manual tranny. It also has AC so throws in another variable the Stratus doesn't.

E10 blends allows blender to use cheaper grades of gasoline to get to the required 87 octane, without it 87 would cost even more.

2.50 E85 went in all my cars this weekend, only Impala is FFV.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by litesong

So far, no ethanol advocate here (other places?) has told of their years(decade?) of records stating that 10% ethanol is superior when used in gasoline engines designed & built to use 100% gasoline.

What you'll find is that the problem isn't Ethanol. Ethanol has been thoroughly proven to burn certain ways, react to certain materials, and becomes harder to ignite as temperatures drop. The problem is the "Gasoline" mixed with it. The EPA requires testing with Indolene which is 91 octane and is "purely" for testing purposes. It is a fuel that is not sold from any public Gasoline pump, not even the "pure" Gas pumps sold without alcohol. What is sold is a cocktail called Gasoline of various aromatics, octane improvers, cleaners, etc etc.

If it was Ethanol mixed with 91 octane Indolene it might not be so bad. Ethanol mixed with crap 85 octane Gasoline is still mostly crap. Ethanol can help but it won't fix everything.

What most of the Ethanol supporters have found is that the only way to get past the problem is to minimize the amount of Gasoline if not completely eliminate it. Of course Pure Ethanol isn't available here(we can only discuss why) so most of us have to make do with E85 if we can find it.