You won't believe how an obscure regulator may make gas prices explode in 2020 with this one trick!

[jjackstone]

Well, while you guys argue the morals and ethics of saving the world I think I'll go buy a small fleet of high mileage econoboxes while the price is down so I can sell them next year at double the price.
JJ

[Natalya]

Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy

And no, don't misuse my words. I don't believe that pollution control in and of itself will cause the fall of nations. Excessive government control beyond protecting and preserving basic human freedom causes poverty and death; the examples I already mentioned prove this. Oftentimes this does cause either the downfall of the nation, or a virtual enslavement of its people.

Your examples of the nazis or Venezuela are so far out and off topic that I don't understand why you bothered to include them, as they in no way support your argument. "Excessive government control beyond protecting and preserving basic human freedom causes poverty and death" like what does that have to do with Hitler? He was a strong man dictator who swept into power at the right time. He didn't over-regulate the economy of Germany to the point that people died, he went and built the camps and propped up his government by attacking minorities. This wasn't an out of control regulatory regime that has anything remotely to do with pollution control or atmospheric protection. Same with Venezuela, they have had strongman dictators who give 0 f***s about the environment, they only care about the 1 thing all strongman dictators care about -- staying in power and then expanding that power. Which is why they kill their own people or they start dumb wars like WWI and WWII.

Hitler WON WWII before it became a world war. He just got cocky (they always do!) and decided to attack Russia for no reason. Europe hasn't had another war that in any way compares to that for the last 75 years because it hasn't been run by strongman dictators for the last 75 years. The EU exists as a remnant of the cold war effort to build institutions and trade agreements in order to stop dumb wars like that from happening again.

I believe our energy would be better spent advocating for electric vehicles than about overtaxing gasoline.

We aren't talking about a gasoline tax in this thread. The price increase is money that goes to the refineries//oil companies because they have to produce more of the lower sulpher content fuel. I just converted my Insight to LTO last weekend so I'm already on the electrification track anyway.

[Natalya]

Originally Posted by jjackstone

Well, while you guys argue the morals and ethics of saving the world I think I'll go buy a small fleet of high mileage econoboxes while the price is down so I can sell them next year at double the price.
JJ

Yes exactly. I've been buying, fixing, and selling old Insights the last couple of years. There are low income people who can benefit from cheap and reliable fuel saving cars that will save them money. Affordable transportation can let people find better work and get better jobs.

[oil pan 4]

Seems like all the low income people around here want a huge truck or SUV.
Then they get more money, get a better paying job ect they buy a new huge truck or SUV.
They don't use it to do anything but drive around because they live in town and are broke.

[Xist]

I see the problem. By purchasing economical and efficient cars I am denying myself the ability to afford more expensive inefficient vehicles.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Natalya

Thanks for calling me evil and referring to people like me as eco-terrorists. That's what I am and deserve to be called because I gave a s*** about some other people. That makes me evil. Thank you.

Don't take it personally. When I refer to eco-terrorists, it's about some folks who use a fake concern about the environment in order to push an anti-development agenda. I am favorable to some measures that I believe are good when it comes to reach a balance between environment protection and economical development, but I don't agree with some groups and so-called "activists".

Also the hypothetical 30 cents doesn't go to the government it goes to the oil companies or refineries to pull the sulpher out of the fuel. We are talking about the fuel the boats are using. Unless I understand the problem incorrectly, I thought it was pressure on the companies to refine the fuel will cost them money and the price of doing that will affect general global gas prices. Am I missing something?

I'm not unfavorable to decrease the sulphur content on bunker fuel, but using it as an excuse to increase the price of anything else sounds quite pointless for me. Sulphur has other uses in the chemical and pharmaceutical industry, which could cover at least some part of the impact on fuel prices.

[RedDevil]

I don't think there are many people that fake a concern for the environment, and if there are, I cannot see why they'd favor anti-development as a motive over more common human weaknesses like greed.
I'd expect those motives at the other side; those vested in fossil fuel related business who fear change more than death.

[oil pan 4]

There's plenty of people who pretend to care about the environment. They are called virtue signalers.
These are the ones who say they care about the environment and CO2 but still live in the city and drive a gas burner, but think other people should be forced to buy electric vehicles.
People who rail against fracking but use natural gas.
People who rail against the oil industry but depend on the oil industry to make their car go or the air plane fly when they want to travel.
People who live in the city and think they know more about farming than farmers, more about ranching than ranchers, or more about sustainable forestry than foresters.
You get the idea.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Natalya

Once or twice a year I come in here and post something to ruffle the feathers of the wonderful collection of climate deniers and paranoid conspiracy theorists we have in the ecomodder lounge forum. I don't have the energy or time or patience to fight with the people in here all the time and I know I won't get any backup because this is an echo chamber for people like you.

And yes you in particular redpoint, I have read many of your posts over the years, and as far as I can tell you seem to think you've got everything figured out on all kinds of topics and you know what's best. And you probably have enough financial stability and confidence that in your life you may never experience a comeuppance or defeat that may challenge your perspective on things or give you a sense of humility. And you aren't even unique in that respect. There are countless others like you who walk through their lives sure of themselves and everything because it all works out perfectly in your minds, but at the end of the day we are just over evolved monkeys and you're no exception. You don't have a monopoly on wisdom just because you have an easier time putting words together or you have undentable confidence. And you can use that to swat me away as though I am an annoying fly. And you can say "oh look you reacted to this post see i triggered you" and discount everything I say, but just because you are unshaken doesn't mean you actually know anything or are right about any of the topics discussed in this thread, or the other ones I've read where you weighed in.

First, I apologize for sounding like I'm calling you evil. I don't have that impression of you at all. That said, I do sometimes point out what evil behavior looks like, and it has to do with viewing certain people as "others"; something less than human. I'm guilty of that behavior often myself, so I'm just as much in need of having bad behavior and ideas pointed out to me.

You've got me pegged as having an unhealthy confidence. That said, my genuine purpose for participating in forums is to learn, and that requires that I state things as I see them and allow them to be picked apart. I can honestly say that it brings me more joy to be shown to be wrong than to beat someone else's idea down, because that's an instance where I grow in understanding. So even though I state things with confidence from the perspective I have, I hold those thoughts as loosely as I can manage because I want to be willing to let them go if necessary.

Your point about humility is a good one. We'll all lose absolutely everything, so pain and suffering is something common to everyone in varying degrees and ways.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post and contributing on the forum. I'd disagree that we have an echochamber here, which is the appeal of this forum.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Found this about emission regulations for ships
For Environmental regulations | DAIHATSU DIESEL

Nowadays some ships even have to rely on DEF generation aboard, in order to avoid the DEF to deteriorate.
http://www.dhtd.co.jp/assets/flash/pdf_scr_en/book.pdf