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Old 05-13-2019, 05:07 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
2. they have a 6.25% sales tax AND a straight number gas tax they are proposing to be $.44/gal with this new law.
I used the proposed $0.44 gas tax in my calculation. The 6.25% sales tax goes to the general fund not the road fund.

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Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
3. From the article, "For Skarlatos, a self-employed software developer who bought her Tesla using $7,500 in federal incentives and $4,000 in state incentives, the idea of suddenly having to pay a $1,000 registration fee to own an electric vehicle in Illinois is “unfair,” and would have dissuaded her from an environmentally motivated purchase. The $11,500 in incentives, she said, persuaded her to take the plunge."
That was the IL Alternative fuel vehicle and alternative fuel rebate. It was not just limited to EVs; E85, biodiesel, hydrogen, propane, and Natural gas vehicles were also eligible. It was up to $4000 and was suspended indefinitely back in 2016.

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Old 05-13-2019, 09:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
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It's funny the roads which provide far more benefit to the country at large then any other government funded idea, should be thought to needed to be paid for by the users. The roads are like the military, they benefit everyone almost equally. Even if you didn't have a car, or ride a bus, or even walk on a sidewalk, you still benefit from the roads. It is how almost everything moves. Besides that, the fact we have such a free and open road system open to all has done more for individual freedom in this country than all the wars and military ever even thought of doing. You may not have or need a car now, but that inexpensive system in place means at any point you can buy/rent/borrow transportation and change your location at any point, any day, any hour, to where you want to be. Nobody else needs to be involved. It's the classic american story, a vast country filled with so much diversity. If roads need to pay for themselves, then I say the same goes for education, Nasa, FEMA, EPA, USDA, Medicare, science, housing, etc. should all have to be self funding. I actually work for the one government service that is and almost always has been self funded. Not to mention was the early driving force behind the government funding and betterment of the roads in the first place. Good old US Postal Service. Laugh if you want but at least we are actually in the Constitution as an official role of the federal government, and one that has tied the union of states together for over 200 years. https://theweek.com/articles/787585/...postal-service
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
It's not $1000 more to register an EV, it's $1000 although I do think the regular cars are only $150.
It's only $114/year here with vanity plates.

***

Electricity tax is used for road maintenance in IL, given that most of the funding for local and state projects (~85%) comes from the general fund. (I looked that up after some moron accused me of not paying taxes for the roads while riding my bike one day).
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:41 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I can't remember the site where I read about this first, but my comment there was at about 44 cents per gallon, I'm contributing about $196 per year. And I know I drive considerably more miles than the average American, so even though I get better fuel economy than the average American I'm probably paying about the same in road use taxes vis-a-vis fuel tax.

Hammering EV users with $800 more on top of that is punitive, and I can't even determine what tge heck the bill's author is punishing! He's a Democrat, aren't Dems supposed to be in favor of EVs? Actually, thinking about it there are aspects of EVs that are especially attractive to each political party.

Another commenter on that site had what felt like the obvious answer: certify your odo every year and be taxed solely on the nunber of miles you drive. That's the fairest answer I can think of.
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:53 PM   #15 (permalink)
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@JSH......I had heard they were trying it in Oregon. I posted some questions in the other section but I'll ask them again here. Not to argue but I am very curious.

How do they collect from out of state folks who drive "for free"

Do companies (UPS, Greyhound, OTR trucking, etc) get charged a different rate than private citizens? I'm pretty sure they do more damage.

And for JSH and elhigh.....how do you track how many miles were driven in state? Certifying an odometer doesn't account for miles driven out of state. Like my parents that go to Tuscon every year for 4 months. They drive down and back. Should they be taxed by Illinois for those miles?

Like I said in the other thread. Too many questions and no real answers. Nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction by politicians.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:42 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Fwiw: they don't charge out of state. Large transport companies are usually registered in whatever the home state is. Federal law requires state access on federal funded roads.
Local transport gets to pay. In Nv, they counted all the miles driven, part of the reason it was defeated.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:45 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vman455 View Post
It's only $114/year here with vanity plates.

***

Electricity tax is used for road maintenance in IL, given that most of the funding for local and state projects (~85%) comes from the general fund. (I looked that up after some moron accused me of not paying taxes for the roads while riding my bike one day).
The article says they want to increase car rates as well by $50. $50 x 4.5 million registered cars in IL, $225,000,000 more state income.
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:13 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
It's funny the roads which provide far more benefit to the country at large then any other government funded idea, should be thought to needed to be paid for by the users. The roads are like the military, they benefit everyone almost equally. Even if you didn't have a car, or ride a bus, or even walk on a sidewalk, you still benefit from the roads. It is how almost everything moves. Besides that, the fact we have such a free and open road system open to all has done more for individual freedom in this country than all the wars and military ever even thought of doing. You may not have or need a car now, but that inexpensive system in place means at any point you can buy/rent/borrow transportation and change your location at any point, any day, any hour, to where you want to be. Nobody else needs to be involved. It's the classic american story, a vast country filled with so much diversity. If roads need to pay for themselves, then I say the same goes for education, Nasa, FEMA, EPA, USDA, Medicare, science, housing, etc. should all have to be self funding. I actually work for the one government service that is and almost always has been self funded. Not to mention was the early driving force behind the government funding and betterment of the roads in the first place. Good old US Postal Service. Laugh if you want but at least we are actually in the Constitution as an official role of the federal government, and one that has tied the union of states together for over 200 years. https://theweek.com/articles/787585/...postal-service
You made a very good point here. You missed the part about how if you buy anything from anywhere there's a 99% chance the item got there on a truck traveling interstate, and the 1% are dependent on components that travel by trucks on interstate, and on and on.

Simply put: if you don't live in a secluded cabin in the woods, and grow food from your own harvest heirloom seeds, and eating squirrels: you depend on truck traffic.

And if you do those things, you'll probably get Randy Weavered.
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Old 05-14-2019, 12:34 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hat_man View Post
How do they collect from out of state folks who drive "for free"

Do companies (UPS, Greyhound, OTR trucking, etc) get charged a different rate than private citizens? I'm pretty sure they do more damage.

And for JSH and elhigh.....how do you track how many miles were driven in state? Certifying an odometer doesn't account for miles driven out of state. Like my parents that go to Tuscon every year for 4 months. They drive down and back. Should they be taxed by Illinois for those miles?

Like I said in the other thread. Too many questions and no real answers. Nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction by politicians.
This is how the system works.

There are 3 private companies that collect the data (all currently do truck data analytics) All of them measure fuel consumption and miles driven based on OBDII data. They credit back the fuel tax paid at the pump and then debit per mile driven. This gets settled up every month.

Option 1: You plug a dongle into your OBDII port. It only records fuel used and miles driven. You are charged for every mile driven regardless of where

Option 2: You plug a dongle into your OBDII port. It records fuel used, miles driven, and location. You are only billed for miles driven in participation states on public roads. You are not charged for miles driven off road or in other states. The added information is also sold as an added feature as it is basically some of the same functions as On-Star and other similar services. You can see the vehicle location and put user limits for teenagers where you get reports on their driving.

Option 3: Only works on cars with Verizon's version of OnStar. Does the same thing as option 2 but without a dongle needed.


So how do they collect from out-of-state drivers?
They still pay fuel taxes at the pump. The same question case can be made for the current system. I can drive across a state today, use their roads, but never pay for them because I filled up out-of-state.

What about trucks?
Currently this system is only for private vehicles. However it would be even easier to do with trucks as all of them are required to have electronic logs books today that collect all the same information.

What about miles driven out-of-state?
If you use option 2 or 3 you are not billed for miles out of state. Right now California, Oregon, and Washington have fee-per-mile trials. Washington and Oregon are linked so when I cross state lines the rate per mile changes and the money goes the the respective state. California is not integrated yet but will be at a later date. This is a 14 state projected called RUC West.

Oregon is the farthest along.

California, Colorado, Hawaii, Washington, and Utah are doing trials

Arizona, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma and Texas are researching the idea.

I fully expect California, Oregon, and Washington to roll out an integrated system. I expect it will expand to others.

Last edited by JSH; 05-14-2019 at 12:49 PM..
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Old 05-14-2019, 12:46 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I think we need to charge a fee on all vehicles, that is based on vehicle weight x miles driven.

We subsidize gasoline / diesel at a much higher rate than we do electric cars. If we didn't need to protect sources of oil, we would be able to cut military spending to a small fraction of what we are paying now. And the savings could be used to build roads and bridges, and many other important infrastructure systems.

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