125CC sufficient (for aerodynamic custom tadpole trike)?

[Christ]

Originally Posted by solarguy

My back of the napkin calcs suggested that a 20 hp diesel could push a reverse trike streamliner along at 70mph all day long with an efficient transmission. So, for a non-freeway vehicle, you should be fine. I'd prefer a 250 cc, but in diesel.

Can't wait to see the non-lossy CV tranny design. Lots and lots and lots of folks have taken a stab at that and never quite hit it. By the way, what would be wrong with patenting it and making just a decent living of the licenses?

Finest regards,

troy

Well, I'm not saying it won't be lossy, but I expect efficiency on par with current manual transmissions, at least. So that would mean 90% or better power transfer efficiency.

I'm still working on how to keep it lubricated without an oil bath, and limiting the number of friction parts. That's about all I can say on it right now, though.

Once I work out all the other issues I'm having in my life, I'll go back to the table with it, and work on getting a prototype built.

[jjackstone]

Hey Christ,

I think you are underestimating both the performance and fuel economy capabilities of a 125cc trike. I don't remember reading if you plan on a fully enclosed aerodynamic vehicle(ala Aptera) but if you do, then I would expect at least a hundred mph max speed depending on gearing and, during normal(50-70mph) driving above 100mpg fuel economy. The Apteras early fuel efficiency rating was better than 200mpg. Don't know that they ever achieved that number. I've seen a 50 pound fully faired bicycle go over 80mph before. That's on less than 1 horse power of output. Good luck on this project it should be a fun one.
JJ

[born2pdl]

Lots of git-er-done types can put together projects based on what they have because they build stuff all the time and have lots of tools and shop space, but for the average person to start a significant project using an aged 125cc 4speed? It's never good to call anyone's baby ugly, so I think that could work fine. Or use all the time you would spend on this project working a part time job and you'd have the cash to just buy one of those finished 150cc chinese reverse trikes they sell in Texas for $2700.

I too would love to make a reverse trike (RT) for FE purposes. Some things I've pondered for my project:
-Having budget, time, space and tools are all necessary to complete a RT project.
-Experienced modifiers have found that a slightly bigger engine running at lower load can still get great FE while increasing flexibility for gearing, top cruising speed and start-up torque needs.
-80's & 90's donor motocycles have 6speed trannys, good technology/reliability and styling, and fixer-uppers can be found cheap during the winter. Maybe an old 250 ninja, 250 virago, 250 honda/yamaha scooter?
-Final weight will likely be a surprise when all is said and done (usually goes up).
-A ton of time and resource will go into a decent RT, and the cost of the donor will be a small part of it. The result will be a rolling advertisement of the ecomodder movement. Everyone will want to closely look over a unique ride like that. I would want to show off a nice looking drivetrain in a clean project.
-Building a running RT with proper brakes, controls, instruments, steering, suspension, seats/belts without it looking like a hack-job would really be a huge project for most. Enclosed body with HVAC would turn that into almost impossible for me. What will I really have time and stamina for?

My ideal RT would be a side-by-side that could cruise at 75mph on interstates. I wish some creative type would market affordable reverse trike frame/chassis kits for a single seat streamliner, tandem streamliner and 2 side-by-side. Difficult to succeed as a business though since we ecomodders tend to not like to spend a lot of money.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by born2pdl

Lots of git-er-done types can put together projects based on what they have because they build stuff all the time and have lots of tools and shop space, but for the average person to start a significant project using an aged 125cc 4speed? It's never good to call anyone's baby ugly, so I think that could work fine. Or use all the time you would spend on this project working a part time job and you'd have the cash to just buy one of those finished 150cc chinese reverse trikes they sell in Texas for $2700.

I too would love to make a reverse trike (RT) for FE purposes. Some things I've pondered for my project:
-Having budget, time, space and tools are all necessary to complete a RT project.
-Experienced modifiers have found that a slightly bigger engine running at lower load can still get great FE while increasing flexibility for gearing, top cruising speed and start-up torque needs.
-80's & 90's donor motocycles have 6speed trannys, good technology/reliability and styling, and fixer-uppers can be found cheap during the winter. Maybe an old 250 ninja, 250 virago, 250 honda/yamaha scooter?
-Final weight will likely be a surprise when all is said and done (usually goes up).
-A ton of time and resource will go into a decent RT, and the cost of the donor will be a small part of it. The result will be a rolling advertisement of the ecomodder movement. Everyone will want to closely look over a unique ride like that. I would want to show off a nice looking drivetrain in a clean project.
-Building a running RT with proper brakes, controls, instruments, steering, suspension, seats/belts without it looking like a hack-job would really be a huge project for most. Enclosed body with HVAC would turn that into almost impossible for me. What will I really have time and stamina for?

My ideal RT would be a side-by-side that could cruise at 75mph on interstates. I wish some creative type would market affordable reverse trike frame/chassis kits for a single seat streamliner, tandem streamliner and 2 side-by-side. Difficult to succeed as a business though since we ecomodders tend to not like to spend a lot of money.

Do you really think it would take in excess of 300 hours of labor to build this project?

I mean, I haven't even started on it yet, and it's already 1/4 way done. If I spend about 20 mins mounting the rear tire and chain back to the motor, and reinstall the carb (used it for testing something), I'm like 1/3 done, and only less than an hour invested. You think it'll take 300 hours to weld a tube chassis together and mount a couple seats and some panels to it?

That's what it would take *best case scenario* to earn $2700, and that's before taxes. Consider that nearly 30% of a paycheck is taxes, and set your best case wage at $9 per hour, and you're only taking home $6 per hour, which now means that you've got over 400 hours invested. Keep in mind again that you have to spend time to get to work, and time to get home, which in my case is another hour per day, averaging 100 days, and now you're talking about another 100 hours, which brings the total to 500 hours.

500 hours using the part time job analogy... I think not. The thing that will take the longest is actually finding another donor chassis... I can't use the 125's chassis unless I start with some other road-going vehicle that has a VIN. I have to have a title to start with, and the 125 does not, so I won't be using it. I may end up using the 125/5 speed on my TwinStar, though.

[Tygen1]

Somehow I missed this thread....anyhow I'm jumping in to put in my two cents without reading anything but the first page. I was into the mini bike scene for several years so I got some input for the power plant. Stock Honda 125cc horizontal motor will only put out 6-7 hp, vertical motor is about the same. I built up a chinese clone with 12.5:1 CR, big cam, carb and pipe and it dyno'd around 11hp. Cost me about $200 to build, not including cost of motor. The max I ever saw out of these types of motors was 23hp with about 10K invested in a custom DOHC Tak. setup. 17hp is possible with about 3K invested, and this would be a dedicated race motor with very little hours before needing completely rebuilt, oh yea, race gas only, so not to Eco freindly running the 110LL

I would lean (pun intended) towards the Honda based Horizontal motors because it would be much easier to duct air to it for cooling vs. the vertical motors, considering a full fairing would be used.
The chinese motor route would be very appealing because you can buy up-sized "hybrid" Honda/Kawasaki motors up to 160cc and making a reliable 14-16hp, which put's you in a range that makes powering this vehicle possible. Price for this motor will be in the $400-500 range and it would bolt up to any Honda horizontal frame, which are plentiful and easy to register. The nice part about the chinese route is cheap and plentiful parts. If you've ever been to a Honda bike shop to buy parts you will know what I mean...

I've had some ideas rattling around in my head for a while now... I got an old Trail 90 sitting in my garage, the dual range transmission variety. It would make for a good streamliner. You can make the seating possition very low and they get 90mpg with the throttle pinned. It might be reasonable to see a full faired version of that able to top 200mpg! That would be a fun project, just need time.....and a lot of fiberglass

Oh yea, the Trail 90 will only touch 40mph with a full tuck, downhill, with a tailwind, maybe 5hp? My hoped up, 125cc, 11hp, race bike will wheelie past it at that speed

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Tygen1

Somehow I missed this thread....anyhow I'm jumping in to put in my two cents without reading anything but the first page. I was into the mini bike scene for several years so I got some input for the power plant. Stock Honda 125cc horizontal motor will only put out 6-7 hp, vertical motor is about the same. I built up a chinese clone with 12.5:1 CR, big cam, carb and pipe and it dyno'd around 11hp. Cost me about $200 to build, not including cost of motor. The max I ever saw out of these types of motors was 23hp with about 10K invested in a custom DOHC Tak. setup. 17hp is possible with about 3K invested, and this would be a dedicated race motor with very little hours before needing completely rebuilt, oh yea, race gas only, so not to Eco freindly running the 110LL

I would lean (pun intended) towards the Honda based Horizontal motors because it would be much easier to duct air to it for cooling vs. the vertical motors, considering a full fairing would be used.
The chinese motor route would be very appealing because you can buy up-sized "hybrid" Honda/Kawasaki motors up to 160cc and making a reliable 14-16hp, which put's you in a range that makes powering this vehicle possible. Price for this motor will be in the $400-500 range and it would bolt up to any Honda horizontal frame, which are plentiful and easy to register. The nice part about the chinese route is cheap and plentiful parts. If you've ever been to a Honda bike shop to buy parts you will know what I mean...

I've had some ideas rattling around in my head for a while now... I got an old Trail 90 sitting in my garage, the dual range transmission variety. It would make for a good streamliner. You can make the seating possition very low and they get 90mpg with the throttle pinned. It might be reasonable to see a full faired version of that able to top 200mpg! That would be a fun project, just need time.....and a lot of fiberglass

Oh yea, the Trail 90 will only touch 40mph with a full tuck, downhill, with a tailwind, maybe 5hp? My hoped up, 125cc, 11hp, race bike will wheelie past it at that speed

3-wheeler (user here) posted an example of a streamlined motorcycle that only requires 2.5 HP to maintain 55 MPH.

I'm looking for the thread again.

[Christ]

The California Commuter - World Record Holding 155 MPG Freeway Legal Car!

[Tygen1]

They are using a Horizontal Honda motor Notice the duct under the body for cooling air
Thanks for the link!

[Christ]

If you get around to reading the rest of the thread (not likely), I can't use the bike I intended to use, so I'm probably going to end up buying a junk scoot or something to do this with.

Or, if I get annoyed enough with it, I might use my TwinStar, and put the 125 on it... or maybe leave the 185 on it. I dunno yet.