Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-20-2019, 11:09 AM   #1 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,022

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 58.68 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,344
Thanked 2,417 Times in 1,462 Posts
2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime - 302 hp & 39 mile EV range



This one should appeal to the masses. Lots of power, nice EV range.

Toyota Rav4 Prime

Quote:
It produces a total system output of 302 horsepower, making it the most powerful compact SUV from a non-luxury brand. Toyota says it'll also go from 0-60 mph in 5.8 seconds, which should be in contention for quickest alongside the high-output 2020 Ford Escape. The RAV4 Prime shares the same 2.5-liter Atkinson-cycle four-cylinder as the regular RAV4 Hybrid, but it's tuned differently. Its 176 horsepower is the same, but it produces 168 pound-feet of torque at 2,800 rpm versus 163 lb-ft at 3,600-5,200 rpm. Toyota says that greater grunt in addition to more powerful electric motors means you'll be able to notice a definite difference in low-speed driving.

...

The larger lithium-ion battery doesn't alter interior space as it's located under the floor. Toyota says this positioning further lowers the RAV4's center on gravity and should enhance driving stability.

...

That regular RAV4 Hybrid is already a significant success, as its sales are up a whopping 72% over its predecessor, according to Toyota. The company also says the RAV4 is now its best-selling hybrid.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2021_RAV4-Prime_Exterior_08.jpg
Views:	69
Size:	18.3 KB
ID:	27214  
__________________
Current project: Adding regenerative braking to the Mirage
  Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Daox For This Useful Post:
aerohead (11-20-2019), MetroMPG (11-20-2019), redpoint5 (11-20-2019), vskid3 (11-20-2019), Xist (11-20-2019)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 11-20-2019, 11:52 AM   #2 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 21,250

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.8 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 73.57 mpg (US)

Fancy Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 55.99 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,004
Thanked 5,887 Times in 3,052 Posts
39 electric miles! Nice.

That should translate to ~50-55 fair-weather electric miles (non-freeway) in the hands of a decent eco-driver, assuming my experience with the Prius Prime applies.


This RAV is going to kill plug-in Prius sales.


(From thread: I'm driving a 2018 Prius Prime (plug-in). What do you want to know about it?)

I love driving my friend's Prime. It's rated for 22 electric miles, but I was able to stretch that to mid-30 miles range without too much trouble in warm weather.



I would probably still choose a Prius PHEV over a RAV, given the choice, but that's because its range works for me in my little city. Plus, I value & enjoy the bonkers efficiency of the Prius. (And I also realize nobody thinks like I do.)

Quote:
The company also says the RAV4 is now its best-selling hybrid.
Toyota's already having trouble meeting demand for the non-plug RAV hybrid. A friend of mine ordered one, and ended up buying something else after waiting 6 weeks for the dealer to get their hands on one... and they weren't able to.

The previous owner of my new-to-me Mirage was luckier - she traded it in for a RAV hybrid.
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MetroMPG For This Useful Post:
aerohead (11-20-2019)
Old 11-20-2019, 12:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
EcoModding Newb
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,829

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.07 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 28.08 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,236
Thanked 2,615 Times in 1,934 Posts
I'm guessing based on what is mentioned about range that they put the minimum sized battery that qualifies for the full $7,500 federal tax credit.

As I've always said, I wouldn't burn up those credits with anything less. I'd either make hybrids that didn't qualify for any credit at all, or plug-ins that qualify for the full amount.

Curious what the MPG will be.

...and it seems we've got at least 1 more vehicle generation with exaggerated faux grills. My guess is the very next generation will make it look terribly outdated. That said, I'm not one to care much about vanity, but form should follow function.

It all makes sense now when Toyota started calling the plug-in Prius the Prius Prime. Prime is now what they call their plug-in version of vehicles it seems.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!

Last edited by redpoint5; 11-20-2019 at 12:20 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
MetroMPG (11-21-2019)
Old 11-20-2019, 12:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
vskid3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Utah
Posts: 969

Civic DX (sold) - '97 Honda Civic DX
90 day: 34.15 mpg (US)

GTO (sold) - '04 Pontiac GTO
90 day: 22.62 mpg (US)

Green Brick (sold) - '06 Ford Escape Hybrid
90 day: 31.93 mpg (US)
Thanks: 192
Thanked 308 Times in 218 Posts
302hp total with 176hp from the ICE leaves 126hp from the battery, not bad. You should be able to get pretty good acceleration out of it without making the ICE turn on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
Toyota's already having trouble meeting demand for the non-plug RAV hybrid. A friend of mine ordered one, and ended up buying something else after waiting 6 weeks for the dealer to get their hands on one... and they weren't able to.
They should just ditch the ICE versions and focus on the hybrid and PHEV. The hybrid comes standard with AWD (in the US) and costs less than $1000 more than the ICE AWD, which is about $1500 more than the ICE FWD (base trims). The EPA guesstimates that the hybrid costs $1000 a year to drive versus $1300 a year for the ICE versions. That's 3 years to breakeven compared to the ICE AWD or 8 for the ICE FWD (less time if/when gas prices go up).
  Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to vskid3 For This Useful Post:
aerohead (11-27-2019), MetroMPG (11-21-2019), redpoint5 (11-22-2019)
Old 11-20-2019, 11:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
Tyrant-at-large
 
Vman455's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 1,451

Little Red - retired - '05 Honda Civic EX
90 day: 49.03 mpg (US)

Pope Pious the Prius - '13 Toyota Prius Two
Team Toyota
90 day: 50.7 mpg (US)
Thanks: 143
Thanked 1,226 Times in 650 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by vskid3 View Post
302hp total with 176hp from the ICE leaves 126hp from the battery, not bad. You should be able to get pretty good acceleration out of it without making the ICE turn on.
Peak power from the electric drive motor in the Prius is 53kW, while peak power from the combined gas+electric is 90kW. Whereas if you use the (bad) math of (peak combined power) - (peak ICE power), you only get 19kW for the electric motor, which is far below its actual peak power and really says nothing about its ability to accelerate the car without the ICE since that is dependent on torque. The non-plug-in RAV4 hybrid has an 88kW (118 hp) electric motor, per Toyota's website; the RAV4 Prime will have to have a significantly more powerful electric motor, since it has the same 2.5 liter "Dynamic Force" combustion engine as the regular hybrid.
__________________

  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Vman455 For This Useful Post:
aerohead (11-27-2019), MetroMPG (11-21-2019)
Old 11-21-2019, 11:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
vskid3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Utah
Posts: 969

Civic DX (sold) - '97 Honda Civic DX
90 day: 34.15 mpg (US)

GTO (sold) - '04 Pontiac GTO
90 day: 22.62 mpg (US)

Green Brick (sold) - '06 Ford Escape Hybrid
90 day: 31.93 mpg (US)
Thanks: 192
Thanked 308 Times in 218 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vman455 View Post
Peak power from the electric drive motor in the Prius is 53kW, while peak power from the combined gas+electric is 90kW. Whereas if you use the (bad) math of (peak combined power) - (peak ICE power), you only get 19kW for the electric motor, which is far below its actual peak power and really says nothing about its ability to accelerate the car without the ICE since that is dependent on torque. The non-plug-in RAV4 hybrid has an 88kW (118 hp) electric motor, per Toyota's website; the RAV4 Prime will have to have a significantly more powerful electric motor, since it has the same 2.5 liter "Dynamic Force" combustion engine as the regular hybrid.
That's my point. The 19kw limit of the Prius' motor with the ICE off has nothing to do with the motor and is how much power the battery can provide. The ~126hp provided by the electric side of the RAV4 Prime means the battery can put out quite a bit of power and the ICE should only have to help out if you really get on the gas (something I like about the Volt vs most other PHEVs is that it operates completely like an EV in EV mode, no worries about the ICE turning on until the battery is empty).
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2019, 11:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
Tyrant-at-large
 
Vman455's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 1,451

Little Red - retired - '05 Honda Civic EX
90 day: 49.03 mpg (US)

Pope Pious the Prius - '13 Toyota Prius Two
Team Toyota
90 day: 50.7 mpg (US)
Thanks: 143
Thanked 1,226 Times in 650 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by vskid3 View Post
That's my point. The 19kw limit of the Prius' motor with the ICE off has nothing to do with the motor and is how much power the battery can provide. The ~126hp provided by the electric side of the RAV4 Prime means the battery can put out quite a bit of power and the ICE should only have to help out if you really get on the gas (something I like about the Volt vs most other PHEVs is that it operates completely like an EV in EV mode, no worries about the ICE turning on until the battery is empty).
I'm afraid you misunderstood my comment. The Prius' electric motor is not limited to 19kW output; that's the number you get if you subtract ICE power from total system power. But its actual electric motor max power output is 53kW, per Toyota. The current RAV4 hybrid has an electric motor that has a maximum 118hp//88kW, again per Toyota; the RAV4 Prime has to have a more powerful motor than 126hp to make combined 302hp vs. the regular hybrid's 219hp since they have the same gas engine. You can't just subtract the two numbers since the gas and electric motors have different torque curves and RPM ranges, and the transmission can vary those inputs with load; subtracting the numbers doesn't tell you anything about acceleration in electric mode or maximum power output in EV mode. We'll have to wait for Toyota's figures on those (if they even publish them; they don't for the Prius Prime).

__________________

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com