Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Hybrids
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-25-2009, 12:55 PM   #31 (permalink)
Dartmouth 2010
 
SVOboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hanover, NH
Posts: 6,427

Vegan Powa! - '91 Honda CRX DX
Team Honda
90 day: 66.52 mpg (US)
Thanks: 92
Thanked 114 Times in 82 Posts
Send a message via AIM to SVOboy Send a message via MSN to SVOboy Send a message via Yahoo to SVOboy
That sounds pretty crappy on their part. I would force their hand!

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 12-25-2009, 04:38 PM   #32 (permalink)
EV test pilot
 
bennelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oconomowoc, WI, USA
Posts: 4,405

Electric Cycle - '81 Kawasaki KZ440
90 day: 334.6 mpg (US)

S10 - '95 Chevy S10
90 day: 30.48 mpg (US)

Electro-Metro - '96 Ben Nelson's "Electro-Metro"
90 day: 129.81 mpg (US)

The Wife's Car - Plug-in Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
90 day: 78.16 mpg (US)
Thanks: 14
Thanked 610 Times in 359 Posts
Hmmm - we could get the extra balancers sent to me, and then I could bring them over
__________________


300mpg.org Learn how to BUILD YOUR OWN ELECTRIC CAR CHEAP
My YouTube Videos
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2009, 09:54 PM   #33 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 21,218

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.8 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 73.57 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,981
Thanked 5,852 Times in 3,033 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
Enginer said they'd send me to two extra balancers, but they won't cover anything that goes wrong if I use them. [...] their site says its supposed to use 4 balancers
If the kit was spec'd with 4 balancers originally, then what's their problem?

They're being silly. Doesn't reflect well on the company.
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2009, 09:55 PM   #34 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 21,218

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.8 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 73.57 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,981
Thanked 5,852 Times in 3,033 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
Enginer said they'd send me to two extra balancers, but they won't cover anything that goes wrong if I use them. [...] their site says its supposed to use 4 balancers
If the kit was spec'd with 4 balancers originally, then what's their problem?

They're being silly. Doesn't reflect well on the company.

EDIT: are you sure they're saying they won't cover ANY parts (cells), or just the extra 2 balancers?
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2009, 01:06 AM   #35 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,009

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 58.68 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,333
Thanked 2,409 Times in 1,457 Posts
They didn't specify exactly. These are their exact words:

Quote:
Please note that if you don't follow our advice, you are responsible for damage it could cause under non buddy cell configuration.
So, in order to keep my warranty, I guess I'm going with the buddy cell setup. However, I just started reconfiguring the packs tonight and guess what? I don't have enough connectors to put all the cells together... This is getting old very fast.
__________________
Current project: Adding regenerative braking to the Mirage
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2009, 10:33 AM   #36 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 21,218

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.8 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 73.57 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,981
Thanked 5,852 Times in 3,033 Posts
Customer feedback survey:

1. "How would you rate our advertising? Did the product match what we described in our marketing?"

2. "How would you rate our quality control in packing your order? Did you receive all the parts you ordered?"

3. "If you experienced any problems, how satisfied were you with our response/support decision(s)?"

4. "Based on your experience, would you recommend our company/products to others?"

You don't have to answer these if you want to be diplomatic. I think we can guess pretty closely what your answers would be.
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2009, 10:48 AM   #37 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: North Carolina, US
Posts: 17
Thanks: 1
Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts
balancing

Let me shed some light on this issue since my company was the first to install the Enginer 4kw kit it a Gen 2 back in May 09.
The issues with the parallel pairs was needed to help balance the high and low cells. What I would recommend is to separate all cells before any charging and record the static charge on them. Add all voltages together and divide by the total number of cells you have. This will give you a cell average that you are looking for. I would then start matching highs and lows within the cells to match the average as close as possible. This will give you the best pairings for each parallel pair.
The reason we have to do this is because you are charging the whole pack to around 58 volts and the biggest danger to these cells is overcharging. You could have a low cell starting the charge cycle at 2.7v and a high cell at 4.1v.
If they are wired in series they will both continue to receive charge until the total system voltage is achieved. This would in our experience drive the high cell to over 5 volts and damage it before the low cell would be high enough.
Connecting these in parallel, creates a balancer for that high and low cell by using one to balance the other.
We have been fighting this battle since may and my company has been through about 3 complete sets of the batteries, while trying to get all the bugs worked out.
The ideal setup would be to have individual chargers for each cell and have a low cell monitor to shut down the dc/dc when the low cell monitor detects any cell below the preset low limit.
These features would add additional cost to the system and would end up making it unaffordable to the average enthusiast.
My company is working on some upgrades for the system to allow those with the desire to improve the basic system to do so.
We will make these available on our website soon at Remanufactured Hybrid Vehicle Battery Packs
I will try to follow this thread and answer any other questions anyone has or please feel free to contact me directly.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2009, 10:53 PM   #38 (permalink)
Left Lane Ecodriver
 
RobertSmalls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 2,258

Prius C - '12 Toyota Prius C
Thanks: 79
Thanked 283 Times in 196 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
That photo shows 4kWh of lithium. The package weight was around 70 lbs each. I just weighed them though. Total pack weight is 108 lbs lol (thats really light for people who don't know).
Nice. That's almost twice the power density of an Insight's NiMH cells. What's the total net weight of all the components going in the Prius?

How does the Enginer pack know whether it's over-charging the Prius pack? Can you trick it into charging both packs when you plug the car in? That would give you ~5KWh.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 09:27 AM   #39 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,009

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 58.68 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,333
Thanked 2,409 Times in 1,457 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertSmalls View Post
What's the total net weight of all the components going in the Prius?

How does the Enginer pack know whether it's over-charging the Prius pack? Can you trick it into charging both packs when you plug the car in? That would give you ~5KWh.
They claim the entire package is 165 lbs.

The Enginer kit's dc to dc converter simply puts out a voltage. This voltage is at 70% of the OEM pack's full charge. So, it will only charge the OEM pack to 70%.
__________________
Current project: Adding regenerative braking to the Mirage
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 09:47 AM   #40 (permalink)
Engineering first
 
bwilson4web's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 778

14 i3-REx - '14 BMW i3-REx
Last 3: 45.67 mpg (US)

17 Prime Plus - '17 Toyota Prius Prime Plus
90 day: 58.25 mpg (US)
Thanks: 73
Thanked 189 Times in 121 Posts
First I want to thank you for this work. It is grassroots efforts like yours, AutoBeYours and other independent shops that we develop a sensible, sane, USA capacity to keep these vehicles running.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hybriddriveguy View Post
. . .
We will make these available on our website soon at Remanufactured Hybrid Vehicle Battery Packs
I will try to follow this thread and answer any other questions anyone has or please feel free to contact me directly.
A little off topic but I wanted to ask if you think the older, NHW11 modules are worth refurbishing?

Near as I can tell the "O" ring around the B+ terminal deteriorates, probably from heat, and this allows out-gassing and loss of water from the electrolyte. Although distilled water can be added to these modules and their original capacity returned, I've not found a practical way to reseal the B+ terminal. The Toyota 'sealing' gunk does not impress me. Do you see a practical way to seal the B+ terminals of the older NHW11 modules?

What sort of Ahr capacity are you finding in the NHW20 modules when they come in?

Does discharge-charge cycling restore capacity in the NHW20 modules?

The reason I ask is I do not see a restoration of capacity to the NHW11 modules without adding water. But once the electrolyte is rehydrated, cycling the older modules brings their capacity back (actually a little more than 6.5 Ahr.)

If you have some low capacity, NHW20 modules that defy restoration of capacity, not dead cell but lost capacity, I would be interested in getting some for refurbishment experimentation.

One pattern I'd noticed at "Prius Technical Stuff" is a tendency for traction battery failures to occur in hilly and hot areas. Have you noticed any service area patterns from customers with failed traction batteries?

Thanks,
Bob Wilson

__________________
2019 Std. Range Plus Model 3 - 134 MPG3 || 2014 BMW i3-REx - 117 MPGe, 39 MPG
JuiceBox 40 Pro (240 VAC, 40 A), KHONS portable (120-240 VAC, 12-32 A)
Retired engineer, Huntsville, AL (five times AutoPilot saved.)
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gen I (2001-2003 Prius ) 30 Battery Modules for sale Matt Herring Fossil Fuel Free 0 10-17-2009 02:39 PM
"Sonata" Lithium Ion battery NeilBlanchard General Efficiency Discussion 0 09-08-2008 04:19 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com