2nd Gen Prius PHEV Conversion (Enginer plug-in lithium ion battery kit)

[SVOboy]

That sounds pretty crappy on their part. I would force their hand!

[bennelson]

Hmmm - we could get the extra balancers sent to me, and then I could bring them over

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by Daox

Enginer said they'd send me to two extra balancers, but they won't cover anything that goes wrong if I use them. [...] their site says its supposed to use 4 balancers

If the kit was spec'd with 4 balancers originally, then what's their problem?

They're being silly. Doesn't reflect well on the company.

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by Daox

Enginer said they'd send me to two extra balancers, but they won't cover anything that goes wrong if I use them. [...] their site says its supposed to use 4 balancers

If the kit was spec'd with 4 balancers originally, then what's their problem?

They're being silly. Doesn't reflect well on the company.

EDIT: are you sure they're saying they won't cover ANY parts (cells), or just the extra 2 balancers?

[Daox]

They didn't specify exactly. These are their exact words:

Please note that if you don't follow our advice, you are responsible for damage it could cause under non buddy cell configuration.

So, in order to keep my warranty, I guess I'm going with the buddy cell setup. However, I just started reconfiguring the packs tonight and guess what? I don't have enough connectors to put all the cells together... This is getting old very fast.

[MetroMPG]

Customer feedback survey:

1. "How would you rate our advertising? Did the product match what we described in our marketing?"

2. "How would you rate our quality control in packing your order? Did you receive all the parts you ordered?"

3. "If you experienced any problems, how satisfied were you with our response/support decision(s)?"

4. "Based on your experience, would you recommend our company/products to others?"

You don't have to answer these if you want to be diplomatic. I think we can guess pretty closely what your answers would be.

[hybriddriveguy]

Let me shed some light on this issue since my company was the first to install the Enginer 4kw kit it a Gen 2 back in May 09.
The issues with the parallel pairs was needed to help balance the high and low cells. What I would recommend is to separate all cells before any charging and record the static charge on them. Add all voltages together and divide by the total number of cells you have. This will give you a cell average that you are looking for. I would then start matching highs and lows within the cells to match the average as close as possible. This will give you the best pairings for each parallel pair.
The reason we have to do this is because you are charging the whole pack to around 58 volts and the biggest danger to these cells is overcharging. You could have a low cell starting the charge cycle at 2.7v and a high cell at 4.1v.
If they are wired in series they will both continue to receive charge until the total system voltage is achieved. This would in our experience drive the high cell to over 5 volts and damage it before the low cell would be high enough.
Connecting these in parallel, creates a balancer for that high and low cell by using one to balance the other.
We have been fighting this battle since may and my company has been through about 3 complete sets of the batteries, while trying to get all the bugs worked out.
The ideal setup would be to have individual chargers for each cell and have a low cell monitor to shut down the dc/dc when the low cell monitor detects any cell below the preset low limit.
These features would add additional cost to the system and would end up making it unaffordable to the average enthusiast.
My company is working on some upgrades for the system to allow those with the desire to improve the basic system to do so.
We will make these available on our website soon at Remanufactured Hybrid Vehicle Battery Packs
I will try to follow this thread and answer any other questions anyone has or please feel free to contact me directly.

[RobertSmalls]

Originally Posted by Daox

That photo shows 4kWh of lithium. The package weight was around 70 lbs each. I just weighed them though. Total pack weight is 108 lbs lol (thats really light for people who don't know).

Nice. That's almost twice the power density of an Insight's NiMH cells. What's the total net weight of all the components going in the Prius?

How does the Enginer pack know whether it's over-charging the Prius pack? Can you trick it into charging both packs when you plug the car in? That would give you ~5KWh.

[Daox]

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls

What's the total net weight of all the components going in the Prius?

How does the Enginer pack know whether it's over-charging the Prius pack? Can you trick it into charging both packs when you plug the car in? That would give you ~5KWh.

They claim the entire package is 165 lbs.

The Enginer kit's dc to dc converter simply puts out a voltage. This voltage is at 70% of the OEM pack's full charge. So, it will only charge the OEM pack to 70%.

[bwilson4web]

First I want to thank you for this work. It is grassroots efforts like yours, AutoBeYours and other independent shops that we develop a sensible, sane, USA capacity to keep these vehicles running.

Originally Posted by hybriddriveguy

. . .
We will make these available on our website soon at Remanufactured Hybrid Vehicle Battery Packs
I will try to follow this thread and answer any other questions anyone has or please feel free to contact me directly.

A little off topic but I wanted to ask if you think the older, NHW11 modules are worth refurbishing?

Near as I can tell the "O" ring around the B+ terminal deteriorates, probably from heat, and this allows out-gassing and loss of water from the electrolyte. Although distilled water can be added to these modules and their original capacity returned, I've not found a practical way to reseal the B+ terminal. The Toyota 'sealing' gunk does not impress me. Do you see a practical way to seal the B+ terminals of the older NHW11 modules?

What sort of Ahr capacity are you finding in the NHW20 modules when they come in?

Does discharge-charge cycling restore capacity in the NHW20 modules?

The reason I ask is I do not see a restoration of capacity to the NHW11 modules without adding water. But once the electrolyte is rehydrated, cycling the older modules brings their capacity back (actually a little more than 6.5 Ahr.)

If you have some low capacity, NHW20 modules that defy restoration of capacity, not dead cell but lost capacity, I would be interested in getting some for refurbishment experimentation.

One pattern I'd noticed at "Prius Technical Stuff" is a tendency for traction battery failures to occur in hilly and hot areas. Have you noticed any service area patterns from customers with failed traction batteries?

Thanks,
Bob Wilson