50 most Fuel Efficient cars in Europe

[Diesel_Dave]

It's interesting how consumers tend to shoot themselves in the foot concerning FE. A couple years ago I recall sitting in a presentation, where the presenter showed a plot of US model year vs. engine efficiency (1970's or so to present). It was pretty impressive to see how much more efficient the modern engines are.

But then he shown fuel comsumption per mile over the same time period. It was nearly flat! What happened? As the engines were made more efficient, people felt like they could now "afford" a heavier, more powerful vehicle (think SUV), that was more efficient (thermodynamically speaking), but got about the same mileage.

Interesting how consumers "feed back" on changes in technology!

[tinduck]

Originally Posted by pete c

so, we should be happy that our smallest cars have power everything and AC whether we want it or not? and, of course it costs a lot more and gets 40% lower FE?

yeah, i'm thrilled to death.

I seriously doubt that cars in the US cost nearly as much as you have to pay for them in Germany. European re-imports are quite a business here because in Germany everything beside food and drink is ridiculously expensive compared to other EU countries, let alone the US of A.

Best example (OK, not a car) is apple... a gizmo that costs 499 USD in the US costs 499 Euros in Europe. Go research the exchange rate.

so long,

tinduck

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by duffremle

How much of a correlation is there though? I notice that according to your graph, a vehicle with a 60 kW engine uses approximately half the fuel of a vehicle with a 300 kW engine. Presumably however, these are radically different vehicles.

Obviously, these engines aren't in the same car - or even same kind of car.

I would imagine that most cars with 300 kW motors are luxury cars, sports cars or trucks while most of the ones sporting 60 kW motors are economy cars.

Sure - and it shows that opting for sports cars, excessive luxury or excessively sized cars is costing dearly in fuel use.

Put the same motor in the same car and I'll bet the difference would be much less significant.

Well, nobody does that.
The wasteful engines come standard with the sports or luxury car badge.

[320touring]

Originally Posted by euromodder

Obviously, these engines aren't in the same car - or even same kind of car.

You can get an Audi A4 from 2.0TDi to fire breathing S4

Sure - and it shows that opting for sports cars, excessive luxury or excessively sized cars is costing dearly in fuel use.

Did you ever see that test top gear did with the m3 vs the Prius?

I'm prone to thinking that the "average" driver, paying the " average " amount of attention to driving and travelling at the "average" pace (PSL+10mph/20km/h would think that

1. the smaller engined car has to work "harder" than the larger engined varient

2. Prestige is applied to larger engiened varients

Interesting how it's totally reverse of the ecomodder mentality

Well, nobody does that.
The wasteful engines come standard with the sports or luxury car badge.

Audi a6 2.0 tdi/2.7tdi/3.0tdi
Jaguar 2.7v6
Bmw 530/535d
Merc e-class 2.2 cdi/2.7 cdi/3.0cdi

spring to mind as not "wasteful" in the sense of a 5l V8 petrol..


As for the OP- I think the difference in engne availability is due to differing metrics for measuring pollution..

[duffremle]

Originally Posted by euromodder

Obviously, these engines aren't in the same car - or even same kind of car.


Sure - and it shows that opting for sports cars, excessive luxury or excessively sized cars is costing dearly in fuel use.



Well, nobody does that.
The wasteful engines come standard with the sports or luxury car badge.

I guess what I'm wondering is just how much of a penalty is there when it comes to fuel efficiency. Comparing vehicles with different weights and wind resistance really tells us very little about the fuel efficiency of the engines they use. It tells us that bigger, heavier and less aerodynamic cars are less efficient, but we knew that already. Put a two liter in an F350 and the mileage will still be poor, while a Civic would still get decent mileage even with a turbo charged V8.

Now obviously, bigger engines weigh more and have more volume to consume fuel, so I would expect them to be thirstier, but the question is how less efficient, everything else being equal?

[pete c]

Originally Posted by tinduck

I seriously doubt that cars in the US cost nearly as much as you have to pay for them in Germany. European re-imports are quite a business here because in Germany everything beside food and drink is ridiculously expensive compared to other EU countries, let alone the US of A.

Best example (OK, not a car) is apple... a gizmo that costs 499 USD in the US costs 499 Euros in Europe. Go research the exchange rate.

so long,

tinduck

I realize that comparable cars in europe cost more. My point is that in europe, you can get a bare bones 3 cylinder diesel that gets phenomenal mileage.We yanks can not.

The only reasonably priced oil burner we can get is a VW and the price starts somewhere in the mid 20s, well above economy car prices.

Even with your price premiums, I would think you can a tiny diesel for something less than 25K dollars.

[gone-ot]

...unfortunately, american automotive marketing seems to be stuck on: "...take it or leave it..." rather than "...select from the list..."

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by duffremle

but the question is how less efficient, everything else being equal?

Well, that's just the point: everything else ain't equal most of the time.

You can compare it within a model range though.
The lowly 2L 90 kW BMW 116 consumes 6.1 L/100km (143 g/km CO2)
The 250kW M1 in the same shell consumes 9.6 L/100km (224 g/km CO2).

Half again as much fuel consumption

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by pete c

Even with your price premiums, I would think you can a tiny diesel for something less than 25K dollars.

If we swap $ for € equally - which is more like the real feel of both currencies' value - you could get away with 2 for that price.

There's plenty of diesels in the 12-16.000 euro price range

[Ragnarok Warrior]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...unfortunately, american automotive marketing seems to be stuck on: "...take it or leave it..." rather than "...select from the list..."

This is the problem with the "demand" for diesels (and other small base cars) in the states. Because no one sells little diesels in the states (or markets them) no one buys them. Then the Big 3 a$$**les can say "well we won't sell you a barebones eco car that gets 60mpg because consumer testing says you don't want one." BULL****, I want one, my mother wants one, my brother wants one, a few of my friends want one. That equates to 99% of my social circle wanting a little eco car. My father works his GM 305cid 1/2 ton do death.

I do not want or need: A/C, power locks, power windows, heated seats, automatic transmissions, leather interior, or even power steering (my Geo Tracker was just fine with a manual rack). I love my manual shift-vinyl floor-rollup window-two speaker Ranger. I know that we can get VW TDIs over here, but no offense to the VW owners (I do like older VW), but I think the new dubs are WAY over priced. They stick behind that badge and say "we're a european car and we are going to charge you more because of it".

The dealership I work for sells Mercedes as well, so I asked one of the salesman to tell me the truth about why we cannot get their B-class base cars over here, to which he replied "Because Mercedes does not want to tarnish the high class standards which are expected by Mercedes owners." Really? I cannot get a Merc diesel base car because they don't want to tarnish the smug image they created over here? Really???

Unfortunately as much as this sounds like ranting, it's a sad truth and a harsh reality. I'm pretty sure all US cars come standard now with power everything and A/C, but manual transmissions are now an option! WTF?